Six Flags posts net loss of $100 million in second quarter

With a quarterly report like this it's really hard to be a Six Flags apologist*, but I still have to ask: Why?! If this approach is so clearly wrong, why does the executive team continue to follow it? If Six Flags is headed toward bankruptcy, why won't the board send them in the right direction?

Are these business majors on the executive team just idiotic frat boys? Are they really that stupid?

*The weather in Ohio really was terrible this spring and summer, so I'll give them that. I'm not sure if that translates into these kinds of losses, though.

I'll give them that. I'm not sure if that translates into these kinds of losses, though.

I would of liked to see a park by park attendance breakdown, but I have a feeling it was Legacy SF that took the hit the hardest.

Maybe read the news item again?

They love to blame the weather for their the decrease in attendance instead of their mismanagement.

however, they do nothing to mitigate the weather. Rain heat and cold Which is another factor of mismanagement

They don’t build indoor attractions, many queues are uncovered with no fans. Lack of natural shade in some parks. At least one park changed an air-conditioned restaurant. into an up charge prestige lounge. What live entertainment they have tends to be outdoors putting both the performers and audience in the elements. Sometimes resulting in total cancellation of the live entertainment, no cooling fans distributed around the midways, etc.

a good number of the parks are absolutely miserable in the heat. Some of the parks have a reputation for closing for low attendance if there’s any rain so now people don’t show up when it rains.

This company wants to depend on perfect weather days for profits. And there are fewer and fewer of those these days in prime season. Remember, they tried to open Kings Dominion in January and February. Without the infrastructure for winter operations. They thought every weekend would be 50°.

Are you losing sight of the fact that the amusement industry is an outdoor one? And the success of any outdoor venue, and this is proven over centuries, can be solely dependent on weather.
As I’ve mentioned, for many years I’ve worked our food booth at our state fair. I’m outside and I operate a cook tent with an oven and three grills. This year was a hum dinger weather-wise with a majority stretch of days in the 99’s and above. One of our workers ended up in the hospital with heat exhaustion. And on certain days the EMT’s couldn’t keep up with the weather-related first aid calls on the midways. On those days (and you’re not going to like this) attendance was low. We were nervous for our success and profits. There are some air conditioned buildings on the Expo Center but visitors don’t want to huddle in those places all day. They want to see the fair. And be outdoors.
So there’s the choice. If bad or dangerous weather is in the forecast people should and do choose to stay home. Which is what you should do. Yes, venues can build air conditioned domes over every queue, ride, or attraction but they won’t, particularly to satisfy those that are uncomfortable being outdoors in the summer. Heat like that comes in waves and those days represent a fraction of total operating days. (Our last state fair weekend brought gorgeous weather and we got slammed. But busy is good- we wound up money ahead over last year so all is well).
Maybe I’m late with the realization that this hobby seems not right for you. And don’t come after me with your entitlement due to owning a season pass or something. I laughed out loud when I saw your complaint that parks don’t do enough to “mitigate the weather”, like there’s some sort of magic wand. Or that all places have unlimited money to compensate for something that happens during weird times. We can’t control what happens in the sky. Our fair is now forced to record days that were down in attendance and profits and nothing takes the blame for those days but the weather. It’s a real thing, not just an excuse to hide mismanagement.
My opinion is that your constant and consistent litany of complaints makes you sound like nothing but an ill-informed ass. At the very least, it’s tiresome. If you’re that unhappy then take off. Vote with your feet and your money. Find another hobby or interest that suits you. (Not baseball- you sit in the sun and there are rain-outs)
Seriously, stay home.

Miami Marlins had an outdoor stadium (Dolphins Stadium). Attendance sucked. They built a retractable dome stadium. Attendance still sucks. If the product on the field is no good, people aren't coming whether there is a roof or not.

Cleveland Browns are hoping to buck that trend.

Weather definitely plays a role in attendance, no question. But the swings feel way more extreme now than they used to.

This ties back into the Live E discussion Having a diverse lineup helps make parks more attractive and resilient. It rains every day in Orlando during the summer, but the parks are still nut to butt. Sure, a lot of that is vacation planning, but people still go regardless year after year, because there’s plenty to do even when it rains.

Regional parks don’t need Orlando level dark rides, but some mix of shows, indoor dining, and rain-friendly attractions can turn a 50/50 forecast into a good day instead of a total washout. Back in the day at CP, you had options. You’d duck into the IMAX, check out the dolphins, catch one of the constant smaller shows, or hit the cheap arcade. There were more Indoor dining spots. You could still ride the train (with always 2 train ops) or paddlewheel. If you didn’t mind getting wet the coasters ran in everything but lightning with all trains running which led to fun power riding. You’d leave soaked, but you still had fun.

Now? One-train ops and little else to do just means long lines and wet guests with not much to show for it.

Six Flags’ ride-or-die model works great if the weather’s good. But when it’s not, the lack of variety really shows.

Dollywood, to me is the gold standard for a regional park. They’ve got plenty of covered shows, smaller indoor or sheltered rides, good food spots, even the Dolly museum, all without going full Orlando. And it’s not just weather, that mix of offerings makes the park more appealing to more people across the board.

With all the talk of bad weather affecting attendance I'm shocked this wasn't mentioned.

When is the last time weather wasn't mentioned during a earnings call? It is comical that they could expand to 40 parks to diversify and still blame the weather.

I'm with Joe E. on this one. While I understand regional parks cannot do what Universal and Disney parks can, there is no reason why there shouldn't be something to do when it rains. This became abundantly clear during Cedar Points opening day. TylerWS and I rode the train and sat in for some glass blowing, but that's kind of all we could do. Compare that to a park like Dollywood where there is some indoor entertainment and at least one or two indoor rides. Same with Busch Gardens Williamsburg.

The issue is not diversifying your entertainment to accommodate a wide range of situations. Even on a good day, I wouldn't mind sitting down for an 30 minutes to an hour to watch a show indoors. I think Cedar Point has one venue that allows that. The last time we were there, we watched a show in Frontier Town, but from the porch of Miss Keat's Smokehouse because the seating at the outdoor venue was uncovered aside from one or two umbrellas. That makes no sense. The same goes for the outdoor stage near Skyride. And maybe queues being uncovered isn't a deal breaker, but my god...on a hot day, it makes an amusement park something to endure instead of something to enjoy, especially given how long the lines could get. Putting up something as simple as the netting that they have under Raptor as you walk into Blue Streak would be nice.

Parks are indeed outdoor businesses, but if an entire day is shot because it rains, I think it might be worth it to make some entertainment indoors or covered. Like Joe said, it means I'd maybe go to a park on a 50/50 day or a really hot day rather than stay home or go to the movies instead.

Part of the problem is that was opening day. Mid-season, there are a handful of shows that are also running, several of which are indoors.

Sure, but the only indoor show that I know of is in the Jack Aldrich Theatre and when I was there a few weeks ago, the only show I saw being presented was Class of 99: Yearbook.

There was a time when Cedar Point had an IMAX screen that could fit almost 1,000 people inside. Even when they converted it away from being a cinema, there was indoor entertainment that could host a LOT of people. There was also the aquarium and aquatic shows.

I know Cedar Point has its niche like many parks do. But I think just like many parks are focusing on giving families more things to do by focusing on family-friendly rides, it might be worth it to think..."How can I make this a fun experience for someone that doesn't like roller coasters?" or "How can we make this park fun even if it rains for a few hours?"

That is a good point. I remember ducking into Red Garter or the movie or the ice show or Lil's when it rained. At smaller parks like Geauga Lake, it would mostly be arcades and picnic shelters.

Back in the 70’s I’d be standing at The Surrey (now Derby Dogs) and look up to see an entire family soaked to the skin from an all day rain. Mom would say from her poncho hat
“Hi. We’re looking for something to do. Any ideas?”
“Oh my goodness you poor folks are soaked. I’m so sorry, it’s been like this all day, hasn’t it? But yes, the saloons have great shows!”
“Seen em”
“Ok, there’s the IMAX, where in addition to the movie there’s a hilarious magician”
“Seen it. Twice”
“There’s a big Arcade right across the street.”
Dad shoots me a look that says “no more Arcade”.
“Wax Museum? Dodgem? Shopping?”
Look from Mom.
“Ok, well, the rain should be done by 8-8:30 and we’re really quick to test and open rides the second we can. And it’s a slow day so it should be good riding until 10:00 close”
“We have to drive back to Indy tonight. Ok, thanks anyway…”
…
…
“Ya’ll come back and see us!” 😑

So even in the Good Ole Days it was tough when the weather was bad. The hotel had a 100% fee for canceling on the day of, so customers were really stuck. I always felt so bad.
These days there are plenty of weather tools to keep mistakes from happening , but that’s little consolation. I don’t know what the cancellation policy is now but my guess is it’s rough. They’ve always been one to protect that revenue.

Side note: I feel slightly bad for dumping on Super7 like that, but the constant complaints about the same things over and over get so tiresome.

Not much to do about an all day rain. Even Dollywood would run out of things to do in that situation.

Dollywood seems to be in the process of improving that with their next attraction.

Sad to say but I believe the glory days of the amusement industry, at least for the big corporate parks, is on its way down due to a combination of factors. With the popularity of the internet and many amusement-roller coaster sites poping up everywhere on the big www just before and into the new millenium, any enthusiast couldn't ask for a better time to be alive! There was a lot of new technology and parks such as Six Flags were pouring money in big new roller coasters like crazy. A lot of parks were on a race to get the best or biggest attraction for the new millenium. Many people became enthusiats mostly because of the then “new” internet and the huge amount of new and and impressive rides. They were building so many roller coasters every season, with some parks more than one during the same season! We were spoiled. But like all good things come to an end, after a while people got used to it and always needed something new and big, something revolutionary. Nowadays it seems it is harder in general to impress people because there is a lot out there and they have seen a lot. On top of that it seems the big parks have less cash to invest and everything is getting more expensive for them (cost of rides, maintenance, insurance...). The competition between Six Flags and Cedar Fair was good for the enthusiasts during many years, but after a while it bacame bad to the point that it was maybe killing the industry. Perhaps the smaller, regional, family operated parks have a brighter future while we see the bigger parks scaling it down by closing some of them.

super7*:

Dollywood seems to be in the process of improving that with their next attraction.

Recent reports make that a maybe-maybe not situation. As rumors now point to an outdoor portion is possible.

24 year member of CoasterBuzz and a coaster enthusiast at some level since around age 6, you would think I've seen it all, but nope. Now we're griping about amusement parks not having enough indoor attractions.

It's awe inspiring, truly.