Six Flags Great Adventure takes complaints regarding Muslim Youth Day

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The dangerous reporters are those... who try to pretend that they are fair and objective

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Because I don't know any Republican reporters like that...

Okay, let's be serious: When it comes down to it, the media situation is like your racism theory: it swings both ways. There's a fairly large Republican media out there, and it's not fair, it's not balanced, and it does have an agenda. The same can be said for the Liberals. And you know what? I don't care. They can be like that. It's impossible to report anything worth reporting without "Spin," as far as I'm concerned. But you do have to keep it in mind.

And I do think a comment like "Good for SFGAdv" is appropriate. As the protests show, there are those who would have refused to hold the event. There's no good reason to do so, but there are those who would do it none the less. The fact that they treated it just like any other buy-out is (sadly) praiseworthy.

As a typical liberal, Jeff, you seem to prefer to insult someone personally instead of countering their point of view. Perhaps it is because he is right.

*** This post was edited by Black 7 9/20/2004 9:44:07 PM ***

Obviously this is the first post of his that you've read. His argument for everything is based solely on his own experience, which therefore makes it universal truth. I'm not liberal at all. Very moderate actually. Your "typical" response about my alleged typicality goes a long way in demonstrating why "isms" are such a problem.

Well Jeff, I didn't just fall off the boat here, I have read many a post by you and he, and the way I see it, when it comes to politics, you lean decidedly left, dispite how you want to put it. The point of his post is all too true, and you had nothing but an insult to counter it.

Out of one side of Jeff's mouth: His argument for everything is based solely on his own experience, which therefore makes it universal truth.

Out the other side of Jeff's mouth: I guess unless you've worked with or been roommates with foreigners you can't have the same perspective I do.

I don't claim to be near the "universal truth" expert that Jeff claims. However, I'm afraid we might have Dan Rather disease in the thread when he says: I'm not liberal at all. Very moderate actually. :-)

I'm honest about who I am and where my beliefs come from (mostly the right side of the spectrum)! I invite anybody to spend just the minimal scrutiny to the postings of Jeff, and find all those "moderate" views he shows in CB! LOL!

"LOL! LOL! LOL!"

When you can debate something based outside of personality, get back to me.

Somebody seems a little huffy tonight! :-)

A few rules keep in mind:

1) Racism: Only applies if the person is white. Non whites can discriminate all they wish and it is called "Cultural Diversity"

2) Nationalism: Is only bad if you are suporting the United States of America. Non US or US citizens who speak out against US nationalism are okay because this is called "Cultural Diversity"

3) Religious Discrimination: Only applies if you are a Christian and stand up for your beliefs. Any other religion or non believers can stand up for their beliefs and it is okay because this is called "Cultural Diversity"

4) Conservative news sources: They are pushing an agenda and are bad. Liberal news sources are fair and balanced, even when reporting on stories that come from falsified sources, because even if the documented source is proven false, the nature of the claim in that falsified source is what is important.

5) First Amendment Rights: Freedom of speech only applies if that speech agrees with social liberal policies. Anything else is offensive to the liberal mindset and therefore must not be uttered.

(the above comes from the 2004 Edition of the Liberal Hand Book)

Okay... so much for being a smart a$$... getting serious now.

Discrimination and Racism is discrimination or racism no matter what side is doing it. Are some whites racist... absolutely... but then so are some non-whites as well. Same goes for Discrimination.... there are some in every demographic that discriminate againts people in other demographics. No group has a monopoly on discrimination. From experience however, I have found that those of a liberal tendancy are much quicker to play the race or discrimination card than those of more moderate or conservative leanings.

But back to left and right leanings. As I stated above, evidence of the liberal mindset was expressed by the very first statement of this post... "Kudos to Great Adventure for hosting this event." Why Kudos? It was a buy out. The park did nothing special except take money from an organization that wanted to buy out the park for a day... nothing to celebrate. Here is my question... what if Haliburton (spelling?) or the RNC would have bought out a park on another day. Would the park be getting Kudos for that? I don't think so. I certainly would not begiving it or expecting it be done. Why? As steate about the "Muslm Day" (for lack of a better word)... a Buy out is a Buy out. While I would have no problem with it... it would be nothing special to me to jump up and down and shout "Kudos".

Nothing more to say on this one after Jeffrey R Smith's post beginning "Why of why do I let myself get dragged into this nonsense...". That sums it all up pretty well.

*** This post was edited by SLFAKE 9/21/2004 11:20:07 AM ***

Ok...let's cut out the liberal-bashing crap here. Y'all make it (liberal) sound like a bad word. The stuff you just wrote is insulting to my intelligence.

1) Racism is racism

2) I'm proud to be an American (even if I disagree with half the country)

3) Uh...yah

4) I'm just as ashamed of CBS as I am of conservative news sources.

5) That's crap. Spew crap all you want. I support your right to do so. Start talking about killing groups of people (gays for example), and your reights start to tread on others wouldn't you agree?

The point that Jeffrey makes is that we aren't the only bad guys out there which is absolutely true. But does that make us any less wrong?

Anyway, I'll tell you right now (and liberals are just as guilty of this), but if you really cared about your conservative views to the point that you think others should agree with you, stop slinging doo doo. The whole liberal-cry baby cliche is getting really old. Give liberals a little more credit for their beliefs. Sure some get dogmatic about it, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'll be the first to admit that conservatives have some very valid points. But I didn't come to concede that after being bashed by some crybaby. Nobody likes crybabies. Even conservative crybabies.

Get over it!

I do believe that I said "so much for being a smarta$$.. now getting serious." But then again... I forgot that many libs do not have a sense of humor...

Now, to counter your point 5 countering my point 5.

5) who the hell said anything about killing any certain group? Again typical liberal bulls***. Jumping to the extreme. Agreed... that would be considered a threat, and I am not talking about that. I am talking about simply expressing opinions that the liberal segement of society does not agree with (i.e. stating "I do not agree that same sex marriages should be recoginzed" or "I believe that we should allow prayer in public school") while may be offensive to some, it is with in my first amendment right to say that.

Bottom line... liberals have all the right in the world to express their opinions... but they have to expect others who disagree with them to express their opinions as well.

Oh well... enough of this... The noon hour is fast approaching...

For all of your Lefties out there... its time to tune in to CBS radio to see what news they are making up today.

For all of us Righties... we have tune into EIB and get our daily programming and marching orders from Rush.

(DISCLAIMER to calm those more sensitive amongst us: Those last three lines were an attempt at HUMOR... )

Holy crap ... only in America can a monolithic corporate entity like CBS be seen as liberal. Seriously. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Every single major daily paper and television network, and almost every radio station, is owned and contolled by multi-billion dollar conglomerates, many with massive government contracts to manufacture military weapons and equipment - including nuclear arms - with boards of directors made up almost solely of incredibly rich, white men, who often have ties to the Republican party. Now how frickin' liberal can they be?

Answer: not very. They serve their own agenda - the almighty dollar - which last time I checked wasn't part of the lefty agenda. Whatever. The media in the United States, with few exceptions, has sadly devolved into a house of mirrors. Not that I blame them - it's a free market, they gotta do what they gotta do, and leave the rest up to NPR and a few lousy alternative rags.

It's the way it is. There are more avenues for dissent in the U.S. than any other place on earth - ever - but they sure don't pay the bills. Its one of the reasons - probably the biggest one - that Americans are often shocked to find out just how much their country is despised beyond their own borders.

Just a view observations from this America-admiring, Adam-Smith reading, P.J. O'Rourke-loving, libertarian Canadian ...

Just because you wrote that disclaimer didn't mean you didn't deserve a steaming heap in your eye. ;)

Okay, so my counter to 5 was extreme. But I should say that conservatives should try outlawing divorce in order to strengthen the institute of marraige instead of discriminating against others.

Don't forget to take your daily dose of pain pills before you turn on Rush.

How's that for a sense of humor smarta$$? ;)

So aside from all this crap, how do you really feel about Muslims having a youth day at Great Adventure?

So aside from all this crap, how do you really feel about Muslims having a youth day at Great Adventure?

Don't people read things closely?

Quoting my first post in this thread:

"You wouldn't specifically give Kudos to the park for hosting a corporation's annual picnic, would you? Both are the same... an organization (or group of organizations) got together to buy out the park... simple as that.... I can find any number of reasons why I will think twice before returning to Great Adventure (closed rides, poor operations, bad customer service), but this "buy out" isn't one of them."

I don't have a problem with it. It's a buy out... plain and simple. The park is not saying "Non Muslim's are not welcome on this day" (that would be wrong), but the park can say "The park is closed today for a private event." Not a problem. Technically, a park can even do this during a day that it was previously scheduled to be open, and while that is the park's right, it may not be the smartest PR (people planning on going to the park arriving to find it closed). To the best of my knowledge, Great Adventure was not scheduled to be open on the day in question... so again, not even an inconvienence for anyone.

On the other hand... I am not going to go around and jump up and down saying "Oh, isn't it just great! They are having a Muslim Day at Great Adventure... let's all celebrate how wonderful Great Adventure is because they are promoting diversity and are not afraid of the public opinion of those stupid uneducated conservatives!" In truth... at best it would seem to me that the decision making at Six Flags was, as I stated, a buy out is a buy out (or if they did give any thoughts about how this may be though of in today's politically charged climate, they probably followed the logic in the Monty Python "BlackMail Game" sketch... "We don't morally censure... we just want the money.")

When it comes down to it... I'm indifferent. I would have been upset if this would have taken place in August when I went to Great Adventure in August and I would have been met with a "Park is closed for a private event" sign... but it didn't matter if it was for Muslim Youth Day or the Greater Trenton Retired School Teacher's Knitting Circle day. I would have been upset that I travelled 3 hrs to the park to find I couldn't go in because I was not part of the group that was having the private event, no matter what group it was. Since it took place on a Friday in September (when according to all calendars the park was not listed as being "open"), it didn't affect me so I am indifferent.

Ironic thing is this: On another board that I visit (RigthNation.com... not many of you folks would like that site) this same thing was talked about and I was labled a "moderate" and/or "liberal" because I took the stance that a park buy out is a buy out... its not a news story. That is the funny thing. Above I state that I believe my right to Free Speech should not be trumped by someone's right not to be offended and I get, in a round about way, accused of promoting violence against a certain group. On RightNation, when I stated this "buy out is a buy out, this is a non issue" way of thinking in reference to Muslim day (or what ever they were calling it) I was accused of "being okay if Al Queda would rent the park out for a day and assemble a nuclear device." Funny how the exteme of both sides tend to make drastic jumps of logic.

*** This post was edited by SLFAKE 9/21/2004 1:45:17 PM ***

Nope, didn't catch that. My bad. But I do agree with you.

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Funny how the exteme of both sides tend to make drastic jumps of logic.

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Well, I don't know. I think there are those who blindly follow and those who don't. I think moderates are perfectly capable of making drastic jumps in logic. For some, it's more emotial than where you stand specifically (kinda like being a rabid sports fan). I guess it all comes down to how much cooperation you think is good for the country.

I think that BullGuy's point might have been that the park did not bow to the ridiculous criticism and not hold the event.

Oh jan---one of my favorite liberals! :-)

I'll grant you most your takes---I do not necessarily agree with them, but they are well thought out and not full of doublespeak---for this is why you are held in such high esteem!

But (you didn't think I'd let it all fly did you?), I must take one of your points to task.

4) I'm just as ashamed of CBS as I am of conservative news sources.

I contend that you should be much more ashamed of CBS than any other conservative news source. Conservative news sources do not hold themselves up to be fair and objective. They come from a specific point of view and report the news in a way that embellishes their viewpoints. In other words, you know what you are getting.

To the contrary, this side of the failing liberal news network, you have the big 3 and a plethora of newspapers across the country that angrily defend any attempts to label their coverage as even slightly to the left. This is a very important distinction that is quite frustrating to those of us from the right. Why are they so afraid to admit their biases? It seems that those on the right are not ashamed to be who/what they are. This is not the case with the left leaning networks.

It is their inability to admit their biases in coverage that differentiates the mainstream media and major newspapers from the "conservative media." You have every right to dislike and denounce the conservative media. I respect that right. When us conservatives return the favor by chastising the big 3, etc we are met with insults and vague defenses talking about journalistic integrity and/or the quest for the mighty buck in the story. It is frustrating that those on the left cannot just admit the reality. The fact that the mainstream media leans left is not even arguable to reasonable and intellectually honest people at this time in history. They have every right to lean left, but I just wish they would be open and honest about it.

CBS and Dan Rather have only openly proved what us conservatives have known for years. The story gets deeper and more troubling minute by minute. Besides the actual mistake, they continued the deceit by Rather claiming impeachable witnesses, etc. This on its face is disgusting enough, but know it is coming out that CBS producers actually facilitated contact between the Kerry camp and the source of the documents.

Knowing all of this, the best you can give us is that you are "as ashamed"? There is no moral equivalency between what CBS has done and what conservative news sources do on a daily basis. To my knowledge there has NEVER been a scandal like this brought upon any major conservative news source in which they were caught out and out pushing fake documents to facilitate a smear campaign against a sitting president while using the most extreme partisans as the "impeachable source" AND facilitating contact between the source and the Republican candidate for president of the United States. CBS has taken bias and sham journalism to untold levels with this story.

I've followed some of the other scandals of recent history. These include Dateline, Primetime Live, CNN's Newsstand, The New York Times, and the USA Today (I credit the USA Today article on page 4A today for sourcing the recent media scandals). These are not exactly the conservative media that keep getting caught. CBS trumps all of these scandals with their blind arrogance and incompetence.

I, as a person that believes in conservatism and the basic principals of truth and fairness do not want to see the scandal that CBS has brought upon themselves minimized to a "they all do it" argument. This is not mean old righty Jeffrey beating up on liberals. If you honestly believe "they all do it", I must respectively ask for evidence that shows this is so. I'm more than willing to be convinced that this is indeed the case. I just do not believe that this is true at this point in time. What I see is a bunch of people affiliated with the left who seem to believe that the ends justify the means.

If you are aware of a major conservative news source that has practiced this same type of behavior, then please educate me. I honestly know of none. Fox News slants right (by the way I wish they too would admit their bias). Newsmax does the same. Rush is Rush. You may completely disagree and hate their points of views. However, it is not fair, in my opinion to lump these conservative sources in with CBS. The intent and incivility of the actions are not even comparable. At least with Rush he tells you he is a snake before he bites you. CBS and the other major media outlets do not have the courage or integrity to do the same. In my book, this makes them lower than scum. The intent and incivility of the actions are not even comparable.

P.S. You're still one of my favorite liberals whether we agree or not! :-)

SLFAKE, you prove yourself why it's reasonable to praise SFGAdv's actions. You said you got bashed for saying it was just a buyout. And that's just the point. SFGAdv couls have treated it otherwise. The Conference Calls suggest that SFGAdv is one of the few SF parks not hurting in the money-making biz, so they certainly didn't need to let the group in. There could have been people in managment like the ones on your boards, who would have dismissed the idea out of hand. Or, they might have over-estimated the amount of backlash from non-thinkers who would decry their actions, and decided it was safer not to let it happen. Now, these actions would have been stupid, intolerant, and not just a bit imoral. As it is, their actions were merely neutral.

But, the fact that there were protests in any way, shape or form anywhere in this country over the buy-out makes me think that even morally neutral actions like these deserve some credit. It's not obligatory, and it does reflect a certain amount of shame on the state of this nation, but there it is.

I agree that this is a buy out like any other so I'm not going to praise or put down the park. I only take issue with the fact that people had to complain about it. To me, those complianing have too much time on their hands. If I were an avid Pepsi drinker, would I complain because Coke bought out the park on a day that it'd normally be closed? No. That would be pointless.

I'm not a history buff, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this country settled by people fleeing religious persecution?

I don't believe Six Flags was standing up for any principle.

They got complaints about Muslim day and did not change a thing.

They get complaints about bad customer service and don't change a thing.

They get complaints about rides being down and don't change a thing.

Face it. Six Flags doesn't really pay attention to customer complaints period.

While they didn't need to the let the group in, money is money... and from what I saw of the opertions at the Six Flag parks I have visited (and inparticularly Great Adventure) the primary focus, above anything else, seems to be the money.

No condemnation of the park is deserved from those who disagree with this decision. No praise is deserved by those who back the park on this decision. The park is doing "business as usual".

Are you willing to praise and celebrate the park for its hosting Sean Hannity's Freedom Concert (or what ever it is called) in the middle of July (or when ever)... on a day when the park is open to the public none less? A conservative broadcaster (both radio and TV) and part of FOX New's Fair and Balance coverage. I assume there are those who would be offended by this as well. I can imagine that the park may have gotten a few complaints on this as well. Still... nothing to praise (if you agree) or condemn (if you disagree) the park for.

Sr. Smith, you do have me there. Perhaps I should have simply used Fox as an example. It is good to know what you are going to get. Kinda reminds me of a certain president telling folks he's compassionate. ;)

I can't really comment on whether CBS is biased or not because I haven't received news from them in years. But I don't think they set out to mislead people. I think they set out to be first so they could sell more ads. They were duped. They weren't careful and now they're in big trouble.

In fact, when I first heard all this go down, my first thought was that CBS must be biased towards the right. Think about it, this "mistake" will probably help Dubya more than the swift boat ads.