Six Flags America to retire Apocalypse roller coaster

You can rebuild a wood coaster but you *have* to. Steel coasters shouldn't and don't age the same to the point where they require a rebuild.

Edit: it's becoming Firebird and will be floorless.

How would you explain Hulk then?

That’s been discussed here quite a bit. Hulk and the dragons have had the least downtime and constant running. There are quite a few b&m coasters far older that are still fine. Heck, what about arrow and Schwarzkopf age Intamin coasters that predate anything b&m did by decades...

Yeah, the IOA coasters had an extraordinary duty cycle not matched anywhere, and their after-hours events, which they sell a lot of, undoubtedly added to that. Someone did the math, it's not even close.

...and, as evidenced by the fact that the ride will be sticking around as a floorless coaster, nothing is wrong with it track-wise. Stand-up coasters just aren’t a big hit with guests.

If they didn't try to ride them sitting down they would be fine. I'm guessing that the low ridership was skewed towards male visitors?

No. I mean yes, but not entirely. I think the problem with most standups was the design. Mantis had an excruciating second half. An attempt to fix that was made at KK and SFMM, but the train’s position on the track still seemed out of synch to me. I don’t know how else to put it, but they were uncomfortable on the upper body as well as below the gentlemen’s belt.
The most successful one (of the B&Ms) is Scorcher. I haven’t been on it for years, and maybe the experience has changed, but I always thought it was a breath of fresh air compared to the others.
As far as conversions go I’ve only been on Rougarou and I thought it was bad. One and done. I hate to see any coaster go, especially a B&M, but I’d like to blow that ride up.

Riddlers is the only one I ever liked. But that's mainly because despite it being a standup, it has a fantastic layout. One of B+M's best if you ask me. Imagine how good it would be if converted. Unfortunately, with Scream right next to it, that will probably never happen.

Ditto on Riddler. It's the only stand up I've been on that I really enjoyed. They really got that one right.

Banshee/Mantis was a beaut. I remember a (dumb ass) classmate saying he dropped some acid and was completely mesmerized by the ride’s giant loops and popping color pallet. The design (and Nathan) always bothered me though. Especially since Iron Dragon was impeded upon. Should have been a turning-diving drop (Kumba’ish) off the lift. (Leaving ID alone) Loop. Zero-g roll. Batwing. Interlocking corkscrew. Station.

I dug Mantis, but understand the complaints. It was really intense and not kind on the legs in the latter half. Same with Chang. Haven't been on Riddler, but I agree Scorcher is by far the best B&M stand-up.

They still don't hold a candle to the Togos, though.

I, on the other hand, really liked Mantis but couldn't stand Riddler. Over the years I learned how to ride Mantis and appreciated its intensity. I like Rougarou, but actually preferred it as Mantis.

Riddler, on the other hand, produced headbanging I had not experienced since the old Steel Phantom was still around. I wasn't even through the vertical loop over the lift and I would have given anything for the ride to be over. It could have just been a bad day or bad train and I would absolutely try it again if I find myself back in California. But I was so looking forward to what everyone describes as the one standup coaster they enjoy, and it was just awful. On the other hand, I always read horrible things about how "bad" Scream is at Magic Mountain and how rough it is and I probably rode it half a dozen times on my one visit to Magic Mountain and I absolutely loved it, and it was glass smooth.

And on countless rides on Mantis over the near 20 years it was open, plus other standup coasters, as a guy I have never once had an issue with the ride hurting my balls. Calf pain during positive G's, absolutely. But never once has it produced the pain so many other guys have on these rides. Perhaps I just learned how to straddle the bicycle seat properly. *Insert numerous jokes here*

Universal is an outlier. They make money hand over fist with people paying $150 for a one day hopper and are open 365. They can afford to do something as financially irresponsible as re-tracking a steel coaster if it will keep the ride in pristine condition and continue to build on its reputation. I'm not saying that it costs as much to re-track a steel coaster as it would be to build a new steel coaster altogether, but the common wisdom is that you put money into new rides for the marketing purposes and attendance spike and that you don't put serious money into maintaining an old ride unless its a legitimate classic.

Again, Universal and Disney don't have to follow conventional rules due to the fact that their parks are basically cash printing machines.

I love both Scorcher and Riddler for opposite reasons. Scorcher's first drop and intensity are really neat, while Riddler big sweeping inversions make it easy to ride. Patriot, CGA's conversion of Vortex, is a fairly intense ride, but about middle of the pack for floorlesses. It doesn't feel especially remarkable in any way.

I think that Rougarou is a huge improvement over mantis. The right always had an excellent layout with pacing but was not enjoyable in the stadium the position with a bicycle seat in your crotch. In fact it’s one of my more favorite rides at Cedar point because it’s rerideable.

super7* said:

The right always had an excellent layout with pacing but was not enjoyable in the stadium the position