Shivering Timbers supports

Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:59 AM
I have been searching for the life of me, as to why the support on the lift extend so far out from under the track. Is the ground it is built on too soft? or does this part of Michigan get some very bad weather? I have checked TR's, and other posts about it, but I still can't find an answer.

here is what I am talking about click

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:30 PM
I was at the No Coastercon in Chicago the winter ST was being built. The owners of the park gave an incredible presentation, and if I remember correctly, at least part of the reason was just aesthetic.
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Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:32 PM
Turbo - it has nothing to do with aethetics. They are there to support the lift, plain and simple.

mOOSH

*** Edited 7/22/2004 4:32:59 PM UTC by Mamoosh***

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:02 PM
'Moosh, I would have sworn the question was asked, and part of the reason given was that it made the ride look more impressive. It sounded silly to me at the time and it still does. It could have been a case of just rattling off an answer off the cuff.
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Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:11 PM
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the ground there is almost entirely SAND. I don't know how far down they'd have to go to hit rock, but with a spread footer, it wouldn't really matter. But for a spread footer to work it would be helpful to spread the load a bit...

Also, don't forget that this is a wood structure 125 feet tall...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:23 PM
matt. - the supports may have the added benefit of being aesthetically pleasing but, as Rideman pointed out, this is a 125' tall wood structure. First and foremost they are supports.
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Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:08 PM
Also CCI used cheaper and weaker Southern Yellow Pine on their wood coasters. If this coaster had been built with Douglas Fir it probably would not have needed so much additional support.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:14 PM
Or cherry for that matter... ;)
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Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:43 PM
it would make for a rather pleasant smelling ride if they used cedar :)
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Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:00 PM
Cedar is an awfully weak wood, though.

I'm not certain that anybody is using Douglas Fir for building coasters anymore, as to some extent it just isn't available in the lumber industry anymore. At least that's the explanation PKI gave for why the Racer, which was built out of fir, is maintained with yellow pine.

True? I have no idea.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:07 PM
Say Raven-Phile, you may be on to something there. Could you imagine the publicity that Cedar Point could garner if it were to deck out its next woodie in cedar?

And RideMan, if cedar is weaker, couldn't they simply use even more supports thus creating a super sweet-smelling coaster that would shoo away the moths? Heck, maybe it'd shoo away the Muffleheads too. ;)

Ooops...I'm sure Mr. Phile is more into CCI than classical music..(Ravel)...but who am I to assume? *** Edited 7/22/2004 9:08:03 PM UTC by janfrederick***

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:14 PM

RideMan said:
Cedar is an awfully weak wood, though.

I'm not certain that anybody is using Douglas Fir for building coasters anymore, as to some extent it just isn't available in the lumber industry anymore. At least that's the explanation PKI gave for why the Racer, which was built out of fir, is maintained with yellow pine.

True? I have no idea.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.


I would have to say not true. I was told that AstroWorld insists that any replacement lumber to the Texas Cyclone be Douglas Fir not Southern Yellow Pine. The head of maintenance even went so far as to say it could be dangerous to replace part of the structure with a weaker wood unless the structure is re-engineered.

I can buy Douglas Fir at our local Home Depot here in Texas, so it should be available.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:14 PM
Well, I know the meter was jumping on the crap detector when I heard it, but I wasn't sure. At the time I chalked it up to weak batteries. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:04 PM
Why would a park that, at the time, had zero landscaping, be concerned with the way something looks?
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Friday, July 23, 2004 12:28 AM
I know. They did it for you to ask questions! Haha!
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Friday, July 23, 2004 8:17 AM

Mamoosh said:
matt. - the supports may have the added benefit of being aesthetically pleasing but, as Rideman pointed out, this is a 125' tall wood structure. First and foremost they are supports.

Which is why in my post I did say that *part* of the reason given was aesthetic, and that it may have just been a case of saying something to interest the crowd off the cuff. Its not like pointing out that the supports support the lift is such a revelation.

Oh well. Here's another thought...there aren't that many wooden coaster lifts that are that isloated. Perhaps ST's lift structure is only slightly larger than average, but the fact that there is no large amounts of track surrounding it makes it look even more imposing.

http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery16.htm?Picture=1

A look at Mean Streak's first drop doesn't look exceptionally wide support-wise, but I would guess that there is additional support from the surrounding structure. (Not that I am a structural engineer or anything, its just a guess.)

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Friday, July 23, 2004 10:01 AM
Whatever the reasons for the supports, it's a great-looking ride!
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Friday, July 23, 2004 1:08 PM
As said, it's 125' tall. It's also very exposed to the wind on flat ground. (MiA is pool table flat) It isn't too far from Lake Michigan. It is also straight without any hing turns near the main hill to help stiffen things.

All of these add up to a need for a pretty wide structure to deal with the wind loads. The soil conditions probably aren't a major factor unless you are dealing with swamp. They might effect the foundation design, but probably not the wooden structure itself to any great extent. *** Edited 7/23/2004 5:08:55 PM UTC by Jim Fisher***

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:14 PM
I could see the reason being the ground is mostly sand, but 125 feet tall, colossus is that tall, and there are other woodies with that height or greater, and their lift doesn't extend out that much.

if it is for asthetic reasons, it just seems like a waste of wood.

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:27 PM
I always thought Southern Yellow Pine was one of the stronger pines around, thus the common use of it for roller coasters.

As for the availability of Douglas Fir, jeffrey might be able to buy it but I don't remember seeing any of it around here in Western PA.

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