Shanghai Disneyland opens with limitations

Mulfinator said:

But being against opening up and being against considering opening up are not the same thing. I haven't encountered anyone who believes that people should not leave their house for any reason.

I know a few that, other than going outside for fresh air and a walk, have not left their house or gotten in their car since this all started and can't get over the fact that most everyone else has.

I can potentially be empathetic toward that though. My neighbor has a child that is completely immunocompromised and wheelchair bound. They can't risk bringing this into their house, so we talk from each others' porch and that's it. Some people do have legit reasons.

I don't think anyone's saying people can't stay home if they want to. If you've decided to stay home, great, but why be concerned if someone else decides to go out?

And that's what I've seen quite a bit on social media in the last week or two. A friend posted that they went to go get a haircut and another posted they went to CityWalk over the weekend. Both got blasted by a couple of individuals for doing these things when, and I'll quote, "people are dying needlessly because you just had to go to Universal. STAY THE F HOME"

Well that's the tension that gets everyone involved, right? Everyone is a potential vector, and the more people move around in public, the less likely that you can contain an ongoing outbreak (or the more likely it gets worse). So in the long-term, the actions of others affect everyone until there's a vaccine or successful treatment. This assumes that you can in fact contain community spread to the point of reaching an effective daily case increase of zero, but in lieu of vaccines and treatment, it's the only way you can restore normalcy. NZ and Australia are pretty sure they're near that point, so it's possible, but not with a patchwork of directives the way we've had them in the US.

So the people who are that adamant about total lock down maybe aren't realistic about the fact that it's too late to be NZ. We're going to have to accept some level of death and illness (perhaps unnecessarily). But they're also not wrong about our current trajectory. There are still 20k new cases daily in the US, 4% of them will die, and most states haven't even reached the 14 days of downward trending yet, the federal guideline for starting the reopening.

It's just one location, but here's what I suspect will start to happen in more places:

https://www.alreporter.com/2020/05/20/montgomery-hospitals-are-out-...ayor-says/

Maybe people in that area are just careless. Hard to say. It doesn't take much, or many careless or asymptomatic people, to cause this situation, you know? And I'm not saying that I don't want economic restoration, just that it's not a binary choice.

Alabama has so much going against it including their healthcare being ranked 47th in the country.

Georgia’s daily infections are lower than they were when they were sheltered in place despite them conducting 6,000 more tests per day.

This story illustrates my point about the inadequate and inconsistent initial response, as well as our situation going forward:

Lockdown Delays Cost at Least 36,000 Lives, Data Show https://nyti.ms/2LK7JR7

I suspect the next administration, and dear God I hope that's next year, will develop a real plan with the intention of the GWB administration, for the next serious pathogen, whenever they may come.

With history as a guide, I would expect the US's response to the next serious pathogen will be better. Countries that got burned by past viruses better handled this one. As noted in the NYT piece:

People are apt to take restrictions much more seriously when the devastation of a disease is visible, said Natalie Dean, an assistant professor of biostatistics at the University of Florida who specializes in emerging infectious diseases. But in early March, there had been few deaths, and infections were still spreading silently through the population.

“If things are really taking off, people are likely to clamp down more,” Dr. Dean said. “Do people need to hear the sirens for them to stay home?”

Only time I see binary choice being brought up is by people who are in favor of continuation of stay at home orders indefinitely as a counter to people who don't. But I don't see people who don't favor broad indefinite stay at home orders as viewing anything as a binary choice.

GoBucks89 said:

With history as a guide, I would expect the US's response to the next serious pathogen will be better. Countries that got burned by past viruses better handled this one. As noted in the NYT piece:

Only if we get Dumpty out of the White House.

Well, today he's blaming the people who brief him on intelligence matters. You know, the ones that he knows better than anyway.

Watching the Universal Orlando presentation to the Orange County Economic Task Force. They are proposing a soft preview opening to other Team Members and Annual Passholders June 1-4 and then reopening the parks to the public June 5. So far it doesn't sound like you'll have to register ahead of time to visit.

Unanimous support. Looks like they will be targeting to be open in two weeks.

Jeff said:

I suspect the next administration, and dear God I hope that's next year, will develop a real plan with the intention of the GWB administration, for the next serious pathogen, whenever they may come.

Longing for the measured, rational policies of GWB is about as 2020, man-bites-dog as it gets.

Right? Still could do without the Cheney influence, though.

BrettV said:

And that's what I've seen quite a bit on social media in the last week or two. A friend posted that they went to go get a haircut and another posted they went to CityWalk over the weekend. Both got blasted by a couple of individuals for doing these things when, and I'll quote, "people are dying needlessly because you just had to go to Universal. STAY THE F HOME"

I have seen friends ask for advice on what parks to go to for walks as a family to get out of the house but not be near anyone and people jumping in telling them not to leave their house and stay inside. My niece has a neighbor that has been messaging her to let her know she doesn't approve of the way she's doing things because the other neighbor's kids were inside her house and that's not safe. She's babysitting the other neighbor's kids because they both work in law enforcement and there's no school and no daycare for them and it was cold outside. I've seen so many remarks in our local community page of people accusing others of wanting people to die because they were asking if certain businesses had opened yet or not. There is definitely a group of people out there who believe any of us venturing out to look for our shadows are going to get them killed and they aren't afraid to tell us how selfish they think we are. I've barely gone anywhere yet myself even since things have started opening but I've had enough with the attitude.

I'm not sure where that extreme level of thinking comes from. Is it lack of awareness? Fear of the unknown? The only way they feel they have any control over the situation? But I see it too on my social media feed from people I never, ever would have guessed would have that type of reaction in this situation.

I don't know what the deal is. For some it's probably some manifestation of anxiety, others may just normally be obsessed with rules and this is their time to shine I guess. I just got back a bit ago from my sons' Boy Scout troop helping the VFW film the flag raising and wreath ceremony at village hall to be broadcast on local cable since we had no parade. Village hall posted a few pictures on their facebook page and within an hour someone is questioning why nobody was wearing masks during the filming. It was outdoors, plenty of space between each participant and it was 91 degrees out with the scouts standing in direct sunlight the entire time. Why on earth would they all be wearing masks? The only audience was the parents of the scouts the public was not invited. Try to do something nice for the community to make up for no parade and the mask brigade shows up right on cue. My boys had masks in their pockets in case they would have been in a situation that warranted wearing them.

I'm reminded of a story a co worker told me last week. Their mother had locked herself in her house for weeks, and was doing things like sanitizing the door knobs in the house every day despite nobody coming or going. It's like some people believe it's just out there lingering in the open air.

I swear some of them do believe that. My husband works in EMS and is responsible for 2 cities and several townships worth of crews so through this whole thing he's been getting daily sometimes twice daily briefings on current CDC and health department information and guidelines on how to keep his crews safe and obviously we use that information when we decide what to do in our own lives too and it's so frustrating to see people fall all over themselves convinced they are going to die if they make one slip up and don't disinfect the outsides of the groceries with surgical precision. My mom's best friend is misting her mail with Lysol before she brings it in the house. Most mail is processed by machine and most mail carriers are wearing gloves now anyway we don't need to be doing that. Even if your carrier doesn't wear gloves the chances of you catching this from the mail is almost nothing.