SFOT opening weekend - new policies
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If I go to BGE with my camera, I want to be able to take pictures throughout the day, as well as ride the rides. I have to stash my camera in a locker at each coaster, and each "stash" costs 50 cents or $1. Unless I want to ride consecutively, it would cost me money each time I wanted to ride a coaster. That's a money issue.
Now say I get a locker rental for the day. This is where the convenience comes into play. I have to keep going back to the SAME locker every time I wanted to put something in or take something out. This is not convenient to my location throughout the day.
Now, if they could come up with some sort of system where you could rent 1 locker for a day, but have it be 1 locker at a time ANYWHERE in the park. I suppose that they could do this if they implemented some sort of card reader system. The only drawback would be the backup at each card reader station (ala IOA). A workaround would be to have more card readers, or one for each locker.
Any other ideas? Personally, I'd rather them just let you leave articles on the platform, but if they're gonna use lockers, the above would make it more useful to guests.
coastin' since 1985
Six Flags' attendance decline was not exacerbated by raising their prices, just as Cedar Point's steady-to-slightly-falling attendance was not helped by lowering prices. Given these two pieces of evidence, the conclusion is clear: people are looking for a good time, and the price, if it's close enough, is not particularly relevant. What's relevant is whether the time is actually good, and that's the problem Six Flags has---not pricing, ride selection, or any of the other details that enthusiasts whine about. That's what makes it a discretionary experience purchase, rather than a commodity purchase, and it's the entire experience that Joe Sixpack cares about---did his kids have a good time for the couple of Franklins he dropped on the day, or didn't they?
Particularly when you consider that a baseball game is a few hours, and a theme park is a full day, even rapacious out-to-screw-you-personally Six Flags is a fair value.
mulfdog said:
If you want a true comparison: Sox tickets can be had for $13 a piece on Mondays. Also, if you buy hot dogs within the first hour the park is open they are buy one get one free. With all the same items you are now looking at $129 for a family of four. Certainly that is a significant difference from $265.And I went by the prices that were listed on the website as well. Upper deck reserved seats are $8.50 plus a $3.50 convenience charge. This is available for most games with a few exceptions.
So you can spend $130 and get 3 hours of passive entertainment in some of the worst seats in the house or you can spend twice that for a full 10-12 hour day of amusement park rides.
It's a no-brainer. The amusement park would still be a better deal at twice its current price.
(also you forgot to mention that while some upper deck seats are available for $8.50 that they go as high as $31 - and the prices only go up from there)
EDIT - Brian slipped in while I was typing & looking at the Sox site :)
*** Edited 3/6/2008 4:42:25 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
Brian Noble said:
...not pricing, ride selection, or any of the other details that enthusiasts whine about.
No one bitches about prices like an enthusiast.
If all you think about the discussion, observations and suggestions on this board is that it is whining and bitching from enthusiasts, perhaps you should take some of your own advice:
You know, you all might live a longer, happier life if you just didn't bother to read it.
Lord Gonchar said:
So you can spend $130 and get 3 hours of passive entertainment in some of the worst seats in the house or you can spend twice that for a full 10-12 hour day of amusement park rides.
I was just going to type the same thing.
ThrillRider22 said:
As a ride op for SFOT this year i think its perfectly freakin fine that we have this policy. DO u honestly think u want too get smacked in the face buy a flyin object goin down a coaster hill ummm no. If u cant follow the RULES GO SOME WHERE ELSE!!! its for your saftey and for others
Of course, ops are happy about this policy. Than, they have less people to bug them. Duh.
At SFOT, I don't get why they picked Batman, and Texas Giant as those rides they have an extra person at. Wouldn't it make more sense to put a person at Runaway Mountain, or La Vibora? Those rides have lower capacity, and thus you would think that it would be more important to keep the line down.
Is Six Flags doing things right? No. But, the $1 lockers are not the problem. The problem is the ride op at entrance that says, "You gotta put that in a locker" instead of "Sorry, but there are no loose articles allowed in this line. You can leave that with a non-rider, or, if you like, use one of these lockers over here."
Edited to add: what's more, if the entrance operator does his/her job well and with courtesy, the lines will actually move faster. Yet all anyone here does is complain that "it's just a ripoff." This is a good thing, if it improves dispatch time. Good for the guests, because they wait less, and good for the park, because guests that wait less are happier.
*** Edited 3/6/2008 6:29:56 PM UTC by Brian Noble***
Six Flags tried this new method at SFOG last year and it didn't work. The line attendants did not do their job well, the general public still continued to bring items onto the platform, and the ride attendants insisted on finding the owner of each and every item. We can't prove that dispatch times were slower because Goliath was a new coaster, but I sincerely doubt that Claude and Walter expected the trains to spend anywhere from a few to several minutes on the final brake run with each dispatch.
I'll give SFOT the benefit of the doubt, and allow them time to adjust to this new policy. But when I go back in two weeks or in August, I really don't think things will be much better.
Brian Noble said:
Is Six Flags doing things right? No. But, the $1 lockers are not the problem. The problem is the ride op at entrance that says, "You gotta put that in a locker" instead of "Sorry, but there are no loose articles allowed in this line. You can leave that with a non-rider, or, if you like, use one of these lockers over here."[W]hat's more, if the entrance operator does his/her job well and with courtesy, the lines will actually move faster. Yet all anyone here does is complain that "it's just a ripoff." This is a good thing, if it improves dispatch time. Good for the guests, because they wait less, and good for the park, because guests that wait less are happier.
I'd agree with that in theory. Essentially, it's like giving people a mandatory $1 fast pass. Speed the line for a buck. If I can wait 1 hour for free, or 40 minutes for $1, I'll fork over the $1.
The problem that I see, is that it will more likely be "you can't take loose articles on the platform because it slows down the loading cycle." Then when you get up there, there's one train or stacking trains, and they're not flush-loading guests anyhow. As we can see from above in this thread, the employee attitude is outstanding already, and the season isn't even in full swing yet.
There are myriad ways to speed up the lines at Six Flags parks. I just don't believe that this is one of the top 5 reasons that they're slow in the first place.
Hi
Lord Gonchar said:
So you can spend $130 and get 3 hours of passive entertainment in some of the worst seats in the house or you can spend twice that for a full 10-12 hour day of amusement park rides.It's a no-brainer. The amusement park would still be a better deal at twice its current price.
Says the coaster enthusiast. Personally I'm more of a fan of baseball and sports in general. For me the baseball game is the better value. My argument was that the math wasn't accurate.
Yes these are the worst seats. Let's face it Six Flags sells most of its guests the worst seats. You can upgrade your seats with a fast pass for a higher price of course. There is alot to do at an amusement park. But if you think going to a baseball game is sitting for three hours I challenge you to walk around the park and see what else there is to do. For instance, US Cellular(Comiskey for the diehard Sox fans) has a fundamentals clinic for kids.
I'm also gonna disagree with your time frames. Yes you can spend 10-12 hours in an amusement park. How many families actually spend the entire day at the park? If you are staying in a hotel nearby you may be tempted to stay longer. But for most parks I imagine the larger percentage of people are locals(2 hours or less away from the park).
Baseball only three hours? If you show up right at the first pitch and leave right away. Believe it or not people do tailgate before games. And they also go out after games. Add two hours right there.
Maybe I'm wrong but just looking at attendance figures more people are finding baseball to be a better value. In 2007, 79.5 million people went to Major League Baseball games. Without including Disney can the amusement industry say the same? *** Edited 3/6/2008 8:02:14 PM UTC by mulfdog***
a) Leave them with a non rider or put them in a locker before entering the line and have to stand in line without shoes.
b) Take the risk of wearing them while riding which could hit someone or just get lost in general
c) Place them at the station which slows down the loading process and depending on the ride operator could ask for the owner of the shoes.
d) Sit on them and have sucky ride experience especially if they are wet, dirty, large, hard, etc and still could have the possibilty of falling out and being lost.
e) Create a new policy at Six Flags parks that bans people from wearing flip flops to the park.
Take your pick. :) *** Edited 3/6/2008 8:36:23 PM UTC by rct247***
The shoes thing is something I find annoying AND funny. Just comparing Montu to the Dragons, the difference in achievable capacity is outstanding. Montu *almost never* dispatches without stacking due to the shoes thing. Add in the fact that loose articles are virtually permitted on Montu (where lockers are available for a fee) vs. Dragons' generally stricter enforcement (and free lockers) - and it's easy to see why EACH Dragon can do twice the PPH of Montu...then the ride shuts down for 15-30 minutes "routinely" to retrieve said loose articles. Always brings a smile to my face... ;) <---winky included)
P.S. Montu is also "shoes-only"....and sneakers are NOT permitted, only sandals/flip-flops.
P.P.S. Is there a more thankless pain-in-the-butt job on EARTH than being a ride-op in a park with *variable and unreasonable* policies?
*** Edited 3/6/2008 9:17:25 PM UTC by rollergator***
kpjb said:
I'd agree with that in theory.
I think everything SF does is in theory. :)
mulfdog said:
I'm also gonna disagree with your time frames. Yes you can spend 10-12 hours in an amusement park. How many families actually spend the entire day at the park? If you are staying in a hotel nearby you may be tempted to stay longer. But for most parks I imagine the larger percentage of people are locals(2 hours or less away from the park).Maybe I'm wrong but just looking at attendance figures more people are finding baseball to be a better value. In 2007, 79.5 million people went to Major League Baseball games. Without including Disney can the amusement industry say the same?
Six Flags claims that 30 million people spent 250 million hours at their parks last year. (source)
I think that answers both questions. SF alone does about 38% of the attendance of all 30 MLB teams and claim that their guests, on average, spend about 8 1/2 hours in the park.
Baseball only three hours? If you show up right at the first pitch and leave right away. Believe it or not people do tailgate before games. And they also go out after games. Add two hours right there.
People show up early at parks, hang out and participate in the running of the bulls at big parks too...and the traffic at the end of the day alone adds a good hour to your evening. ;)
Seriously though, you're stretching. The ticket doesn't include that. Your ticket buys you a seat for one baseball game - showing up and loitering in the parking lot is optional...and free (or at least the price of parking).
I still gotta agree with Brian. As a dad/husband with a wife and two kids (commonly known as a family), the cost of amusement parks are comparable to other entertainment across the board.
Six Flags tried this new method at SFOG last year and it didn't work. The line attendants did not do their job well, the general public still continued to bring items onto the platform, and the ride attendants insisted on finding the owner of each and every item.
I think you and I are close to being in agreement. My take is that the policy isn't necessarily a problem. Poor implementation of the policy is.
Cedar Point used to have a no loose articles policy on nearly every coaster, and they meant it. There was someone at the front of the line enforcing it. And, the trains ran on time---arriving guests trying to get things into the bins weren't tripping over all the departing guests trying to get things out. Now that loose articles are allowed at CP, capacity at each ride has gone down in a noticeable way. It's not really the end of the world, because overall park capacity is still ridiculously high, but you notice the difference.
I do like Dollywood's policy/implementation better, but most corporate parks will never do that, because handling the guest's items increases the park's liability for loss/damage. If MiAdv does this, I'm actually surprised. The other CF ops I've encountered won't touch the guests' stuff in most circumstances, though a few are smart enough to realize that they may as well if the train is already locked and checked.
I'm beyond SHOCKED at Gonch's total of "hours spent". Only a few years ago, some *credible source* within the industry claimed that an average visit was around 4.5-5 hours. What's changed?
The whole thing seems weird to me because since I sort of transitioned over to "enthusiast" I tend to spend less time in the parks now than I did back when I was strictly GP.
I'm surprised that the average visit is only 8 hours.
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