SFMM: X2 / Tatsu Pretzel Loop Intensity for Older Riders

Agreed, not a fan of pretzel loops. I don't mind and actually dig the standard loops though on the Vekoma models.

Can't wait to try out FLY! Watching flights now to get out there next Spring again. Phantasialand is so awesome.

I once read somewhere, maybe here, that a pretzel loop on a flying coaster is necessary on that type of ride and has something to do with blocking. I don't understand, and wonder how true that is. I would really appreciate it if someone could take the time to explain if it is true or not.

I didn't find anything about it when I just now Googled it, so it's probably just one of those coaster enthusiast myths.

No, I’d say it’s designed to give riders the chance to experience inversions without weird stress on the body. In other words, the most outward stress on any loop is at the bottom. The pretzel loop puts the rider on their back at that point in the “loop”, which is easier on the anatomy. It’s also easier on the restraints, for that matter.

LostKause said:

I once read somewhere, maybe here, that a pretzel loop on a flying coaster is necessary on that type of ride and has something to do with blocking.

That is, to not put too fine a point on it, bollocks. See below:

https://rcdb.com/1458.htm
https://rcdb.com/8983.htm

I don't particularly find the prone position that much fun on a ride, pretzel loop or not. I'm probably in the minority, but I'd rather stand.

I don't have a strong opinion on the pretzel loop, but I do find it interesting that they changed the station design to a static floor. It's such an elegant solution and eliminates a moving part. I look at it now, and say, "duh" but I'm sure it wasn't obvious.

If you want to see a design upgrade, look at F.L.Y. – the trains load in an ordinary seated position and rotate about 15 seconds into the ride.

I'd love to see that in action (I've seen static photos of it). It is certainly a neat idea. But as an engineer, I'm generally more impressed by a simple and elegant solution that eliminates a moving part (see: magnetic braking) than a complex solution that was pulled off correctly.

ApolloAndy said:

As much as operations are probably terrible, I went on a random Friday during fall 2019 and everything was a walk on. I was done by noon and moved up my flight to save a night’s lodging.

Define "done by noon"... I remember my visit in 2003 and there is no way you rode everything in the park in 2 hours, even if you are a world class sprinter, had zero wait, and hopped on each coaster just as the train was leaving the station.

Richard Bannister said:

If you want to see a design upgrade, look at F.L.Y. – the trains load in an ordinary seated position and rotate about 15 seconds into the ride.

Wasn't that the original game plan for the original Flying Dutchman coasters, for the seats to recline while going up the lift hill and then un-recline on the brake run? So it only took Vekoma 20 years to make that work? (Yes I know its not the same transition to the flying position...)

Yes. That was the original idea and a case of making things way more complex than they needed to be.

ShaneDenmark said:

Define "done by noon"...

Oh yeah, I should have clarified. I rode everything new since 2005 with multiple laps on TC plus a nostalgia lap on X2, Riddler, and Ninja. So, Full Throttle, TC x3, Lex Luthor, Tatsu, Ninja, Apocalypse, X2. Superman opened just as I was leaving and I didn’t care enough to try it backwards. Still a lot done in about 3 hrs.

9 laps in 3 hours (they open at 9am?!?)… I still don’t see it but wow. You should try out for the Olympic Speed Walking Team.

I was going to comment about how was that even worth the price of admission, but then I realized it’s Six Flags and you could’ve bought a chain-wide pass for about $55 in 2019.

Everything was literally a walk on. I got on the first train of Full Throttle for the day (which was 20 minutes late), hustled over to TC for 3 laps on the same train (getting up and running around...may have missed one dispatch) and hit Lex probably before the first hour was even up. I do tend to hustle when I'm solo in a park, but I didn't even feel like I was actually rushing. I think I even got a solo ride on Apocalypse (because the West Coast Racers construction made it impossible to find and there were, like, 3 guests in the entire area). And that's sort of the point. I don't think I waited for more than a train to pull up and open its restraints the entire time I was there.

I was on the Mountain this past Sunday at open. Crowds were light. I rope dropped X, then West Coast Racers on a 10 30 open. Then Twisted Colossus which opened almost an hour late. I would have stopped at Tatsu but it didn't run by the time I left at 4 pm. Though it did appear crewed. Viper didn't open during the day either. (It was the first ride sending trains around 9). Twisted Colossus was running three trains (but not dueling) and only pulling a 15 minute wait mid day. West Coast looked like it's switchback filled up. The few other rides I hit (Apocalypse, Ninja, Revolution) ranged from station waits to walk ons.

The park looked really great. Rides were cycling well.

ApolloAndy said:

Yes. That was the original idea and a case of making things way more complex than they needed to be.

I think that there's a line here between complex engineering and adding thrill to the overall experience. On F.L.Y. the transition is absolutely effortless and adds enormously to the ride; I can't see a recline in the station having the same effect.

Fair enough. Obviously one could claim a launch or a new type of rolling stock is "making things way more complex than they need to be" and a lot of new types of roller coasters have been reliable and successful. To me personally, that just seems like a really bad value in terms of thrill for complexity, but maybe it's hindsight reflecting on the fact that it never actually worked.

I never thought it was supposed to be a thrill so much as rider comfort (not laying down in the station or on the brake run) as well as quicker (everything is relative) dispatch times by reclining and in-reclining while the train was rolling in or out of the station.