SFGAm Superman Section?
While I will grant you that PKI in the past two years has made itself a great distinction in the themeing and small children catagory, I think you tend to overrate parks like BGW. It astounds me that you profess to eat outside the park, and claim the food is terrible. My guess is that it has been a while since you've eaten there. I'd wager that you've not eaten in Mooseburger or the SWT Buffett.
And what is this about family rides? Somebody school me "What the F@#& constitutes a 'family ride' these days"? When I was growing up, a family ride was just that, a ride that pretty much the whole family could get on. By 5 years old, the average child is taller than 42" (~107cm). The SFGAm website lists 31 separate rides. Of these TWENTY THREE has a height limit of 42" or less, with 3 coasters, including a junior (Spacely), an adult (Whizzer) and a looping (Demon). That's more than the park started with, and I haven't included the rides in Camp Cartoon Network (besides Spacely) and Looney Tunes national park.. (NOT: Rue Le Dodge wasnt listed on the website and is thus not included in this list)
Now, you *may* be able to convince me that Demon isn't really a "family ride" because of the loopings, but that still leaves 22 bona fide family RIDES. I havent even addressed the other activites that the family could do, like the show @ the Pictorium, the SWT Theater show, the theater where Shock Wave used to be, the various arcades, karaoke, and the little gazebo thing near where Power Dive was. I find it very strage that there is an outcry by families that there is little to do when I as a youngster spent entire days @ GAm with *my* family, and there were far less things to do then then there is now. Perhaps the lines have gotten shorter for the flat rides and thus it *seems* like you are through with the park quicker. I dunno, but the sheer volume of rides rebuffs that assertion on its on merit.
And on a personal note, while I think that PKI has a better hold on small children, I wouldn't so much say "families". I'd guess that even most preteens (11, 12) would consider Beastie, Reptar, Scooby and most certainly Taxi Jam as "baby" rides. Those still aren't *really* family rides, as I see it. And moreover, the food at PKI SUCKED (my only complaint of my whole visit :))
lata, jeremy
--*just* about done with this topic...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=limit
I see this on signs/websites all the time. Why does the 'industry' insist on misusing this word?
Are requirement and minimum too confusing?
/end rant
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UpsideDawnGrrl
*** This post was edited by dawnmarie313 2/13/2003 5:49:58 PM ***
Rant on, sexial bithc!
<end alert>
Moosh
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Humor Ingredients: all natural flavors, some artificial additives. Sold by weight, not volume. 100% satisfaction not guaranteed. Void in Texas and Puerto Rico.
lata, jeremy
--smile, it's a happy time :)
Well, how about, this? I just would prefer to see minimum or requirement used.
Dam* Illinois alums always trying to make everybody else look dumb... ;)
Going to get the taste of my foot out of my mouth,
Dawn
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UpsideDawnGrrl
lata, jeremy
--"I've got friends in low places, where the whiskey drowns and the beer chases my blues away...."
lata, jeremy
"The Thunder Rolls...."
Chitown said:
You could , but your life expectancy would drop significantly. :)------------------
Arena football has arrived in the Windy City. Go "Chicago Rush"
Aint that the truth!
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BMCOASTER
bmcoaster@wi.rr.com
When i think of ambiance i think of how clean the park is, how friendly/helpful the employee's are, how well behaved are the guests,how does the park look as you walk around,if their is music in the backround,hos is the food etc, not just the rides, even thouhg it is a big part of it. And while SFGAM is the best of the SF parks ive been too, the park needs to be cleaner, not have broken railings and gum all over ride que's,garbge cans overflowing ,and actually deal with customers who skip line,use profane language etc because this is all part of the experience of being at a park. And again while i find SFGAM to be the best in all of these things for SF parks i havent found as many problems like this at other regional parks like BGW or PKI(granted i may have been lucky and hit those parks on good days and dont go to them as often). And because of the items i mentioned i dont even go to SFGAM on weekends at all because the problems are much greater on weekends while week days it is alot better.
And while a park like BGW could use a couple of coasters, everything else about the park is just great!!! The food is excellant, the coasters they have all good or great and the selection of shows, be it in Ireland or Germany etc are great. And it is a joy just to walk around the park and enjoy the scenery, not to mention its nice not to see gum all over the place,foul lanuage used by guests and not seeing garbage all over the que lines etc. With all of the shops/rest/shows. you can have a great day at the park and not go on any rides.
Not every family member wants to go on a ride that spins you around, which is what happens in alot of the rides at SFGAM that are considered family rides. And what was the last ride built that a WHOLE family could ride together?? Now if they wanted to do something for the whole family, take out the movie in the pictoruim and put in a 3d attraction and use the Warner Bros material they have or base it on Great America(as in the country). or build a ride like the Scooby Doo attraction at SF STL. One of the good ones thay had, Sky Whirl was torn down.
As for PKI, the pre-teens may not ride the attractions you mentioned but once they out grow those they still have other rides like the Beast etc. But the park can entertain the whole family and has a great connection with the nick/sponge bob characters which the kids love. And for the whole family to enjoy you cant beat having a water park in the park as part of the general admission price.
I also find it interesting that you mention families "not wanting to spin around on every ride," then complain the park ripped out Sky Whirl. That was, hands down, one of the most nauseating experiences of my life. Good riddance.
I'm also happy there is no "Scooby Doo" interactive attraction at SFGAm. A park with attendance as high as SFGAm (and even PKI) really has no business adding such a low-capacity ride, IMO.
-Nate
The fajitas in Southwest Territory next to Giant Drop are very good as are the fries with everything on them. Everyone I know seems to like the turkey legs that you can get in Yukon Territory.
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You can put it on the board, yes!
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Don't Fight It, Ride It, RAGING BULL!!!!!!- Six Flags Great America
As for your suggestion of a "Spongebob" type ride, SFGAm already *has* a similar attraction in Space Shuttle America. As one who has been in both SSA and the Paramount Action Theaters, I can attest that they are similar experiences.
On the cleanliness and "behavior" issues, I've seen trash and gum and line jumping in virtually every park I've attended. I've not seen a "problem" per se @ SFGAm. Have I seen someon cut line or an overflowing trash can before? Of course I have. But it was never "blatant" if you know what I mean. Not widespread that is. Only an isolated incident here or there. It was never anything that left an impression on me (like say @ SFKK or SFA).
I *would* like to see SFGAm install a dark ride, preferably one of the interacive variety. However, until Sally ups its capacity, I, like Nate, connat advocate them getting one of those. On the flipside though, if they could get a less expensive version of Buzz Lightyear, I think that would fill the niche while meeting capacity.
But, I'd have to say that it would be a mistake to remove the Pictorium for that. You mention that some family members dont want to spin. Well some other members will have times when they dont want to move. The Pictorium is a great place to sit in airconditioned shade and just rest. It is high capacity, and a great relief to still be entertained, and off your feet. Shows are important. Pictorium should stay.
With my "critiques" of BGW and PKI all I am getting at is this, they are no more equipped to please the "whole" family than SFGAm. Infrastructure-wise, they *all* have "something for everyone". Each contains a distinct advantace over the other:
BGW- has the better overall food and scenery; but can get old very quickly for teeners (many here in the DC/Richmond area see PKD as the premier park)
PKI- Has the better over all "kids" section, but doesnt do much for those that dislike rollercoasters of any size (they *are* addressing that currently, and that should be noted)
SFGAm- Varied selection of rollercoasters, but hasnt added *newer* flats recently.
But in no way would I even suggest that any of the parks doesnt have *something* for everyone. They all reach out to every demographic. Admittedly, I think their foci are divergent (BGW=older adults, like grandparents with the kids; PKI=burgeoning families, 30ish parents with small children, SFGAm=established families with middle-school/high school kids), but to suggest that any of them completly overlook a group is absurd in my opinion.
lata, jeremy
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"Life *is* pain, Princess. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something."
coasterdude318 said:
I also find it interesting that you mention families "not wanting to spin around on every ride," then complain the park ripped out Sky Whirl. That was, hands down, one of the most nauseating experiences of my life. Good riddance.
Woah there buddy...watch the hate for the ole girl would ya? You're killin' me...while I do understand that some didn't "love" the ride as I (and others) did...I'm not sure wishing it good riddance is called for. For some, it was a GREAT and CLASSIC ride that was fun...for others, I know, it was a stomach turning waste of a dozen minutes. Although, I just have never really understood "how" one could have hated the bird's eye view and calming ride, I do know that some simply didn't like it. I really disliked Z-Force and didn't understand it, but I give it up to those who think it "is" fun. BUT, I digress.
As far as the whole Six Flags vs. Disney debate....it's been done, let it go. As has been said, apples to oranges...and we have to face the facts at some point....NO park is "perfectly" perfect. It's really hard to cater to EVERY whim of EVERY guest ALL the time. Different strokes, different folks. Six Flags (and Great America specifically) has a different way of achieving their business plan than does Disney or Universal. That said, the ultimate goal in any business is to MAKE MONEY. It's all about "how" company's do that that will change how your park runs.
I, for one, don't have the same love I once had for "my" Great America...but, it is "mine"...my home park. I recall fondly the days of Marriott's, but I refuse to not have fun TODAY because I am busy looking back or comparing to other entertainment venues.
Bob O said:
...how well behaved are the guests
Yeah, and you expect a theme park to be the parents of every person who walks in? If they swear, do you want them to put them in a time-out?
I suppose if I went out with some people, and they are completely abnoxious, I'll complain to their parents and demand that I be compensated for having to hang out with such horrible people. Then I'll point out to the parents exactly how their industry standards on running their children would be to those of other houses.
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"If two coaster trains almost hit each other, why is it called a near miss and not a near hit?"
*** This post was edited by Ptboy11 2/14/2003 1:47:10 PM ***
Coasterdude, For a SF's park SFGAM is clean but isnt as clean as other regional parks ive been too and have often seen garbage cans overflowing in que lines like RB for example, which also had broken railings in the que line as one example that comes to mind.
2hostly-Space shuttle America was lame when opened and its even worse when they brought the old show back. This is where i think they lack creativity, make a new one based on space travel or use their Warner Bros/Super Heroes themes to make something new and much more entertaning. I do agree that SFGAM does a better job than all other SF parks ive been too in keeping things clean and behavior but i still see most times i do visit garbage cans overflowing and guests using profane language. The pictoruim would be more useful if they rotated several films or changed them often rather than having the same one all season, but i think a 3d attraction would be much better as seeing a movie on a big screen is old news as every big city and alot of small ones now have Imax screens. And i would love a interactive darkride, and while i would perfer something like MIB i would also be happy with something as easy to make as Buzz, and with a continous ride mechanism if built properly they can eat up alot of people like Buzz Lightyear.
I dont have majot disagreements with your critique of other parks i just know from the experience of my own kids and other friends that SfGAM needs to improve their selection/quality of kid/family rides. And while they dont have the land for it a water park would be a great addition which is great for families.
While the sky whirl does move around, in a very slow manner it isnt spinning like a ride like Orbit as an example.
And the fact that "Imax" movies have caught on in cities as stand alone attractions, IMO, strengthens the argument that they belong in amusment parks. That would be like saying that parks should give up merry-go-rounds because so many malls in big cities have them. I think that even you would agree that is an absurd rationale.
Personally, I cannot argue for a waterpark. I never visit them even when included in admission. But I dont see why you would assume that the majority of "family members" want to get into bathing suits and get wet. I'd think if the wanted to do that they would just go to the Dells :)
Cannot see any reason to swap out a movie in the middle of the year, mayber for fright fest, but during the regular year, the attractions should be the same.
As for cleanliness, I really can only point to one regional park that struck me as being decidedly cleaner than a place like SFGAm and that was Dorney Park (which was actually so clean that it seemed sterile :))
BTW: what is so fundamentally different between Buzz and MIB? I've never been on Buzz, but they look pretty similar to me. And I would campaign for every park to get a ride like MIB. I think it is the best non-coaster ride out (yes...even over Spidey)
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"Life *is* pain, Princess. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something."
Films on imax can be great but a 3d attracttion is much more unique and with seats that are interactive to the film make for a much more enjoyable experience. Now if they actually had new films and changed them often i would agree, but not when they show the same old film like this year and dont change it all year. Having the same film all season gets old/boring quick, and its even sadder the film isnt run contuinally all day long!!
I dont know if you have been in a waterpark inside of a theme park, but they are extremely popular with families and i would guess even non-families who like to cool off or just enjoy the lazy river/wave pool. And im sure they are helping the parks bottom line or alot of parks wouldnt have added them as part of the theme park experince. When the weather is hot/nice i have found them to have lines waiting to just get in wich spreads the guests around the park and leads to shorter lines.
The big difference between Buzz and MIB is that the ride moves on the ride mechanism and while it does spin around it has little movement and their is no interactive action. You are not shot at like in MIB and you also dont shoot at other vehicles like MIB. Disney just used the old ride system from the delta flight without making something totally new like MIB did. And i agree that it is a great ride that can be enjoyed over and over to seed if you can beat your score(but nothing beats Spiderman). I would list MIB just behind Spiderman and Indiana Jones at DL as the best theme park attractions.
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