SF hidden agenda?

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coasterguts said:
My point is, SFI could sell some of their prime parks to either developers or other companies and make money in the process because the land is more valuable than the park.

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you don't live around here, but the average new house in Aurora is $250,000. In neighboring Solon, it's $300,000. Geauga Lake is 740 acres. Do the math... the purchase price Cedar Fair got was worth the land alone, to say nothing of the buildings and rides on it. Just because a park might appear to be worth it, doesn't mean they can actually sell for that price.

*upbeat voice of TV announcer*

DeVry grads are especially well-suited for accounting...

Their extra fingers and toes make complex equations a breeze! Literally!

-CO

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CedarPoint82 said:
This is the last bit of time I will waste here.

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I'm getting that "Deja Vu feeling" again....is the Minivan of Justice gassed up? :)

Does CedarPoint82 even deserve the Van?
Puhleeze. Even the JVs would pass on this one.

The Obvious One says CedarPoint82's gotta go.

Remember this?

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CedarPoint82 said:
Coasta Playa or whatever...
It is time to go socialize with the intelligent species.

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First of all, it's Uncle Obvious to you.

And if that last sentence made you wonder, this should clear it up nicely...

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Search | Recent | Notification | Favorites

Forums => Private Messages

To: CoastaPlaya
From: CedarPoint82
Subject: you don't know anything, you silly ******
Date: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:14:45 PM

Hello,
Just wondering why you think you know so much??? Your little post was completely wrong, and just so you know, I already work as an accountant, making a whole lot more $$$ than you do, I've got a 4.0 and I'm defintely a lot smarter, so go ahead and make yourself look stupid, because it doesn't need to be said who's right here. I don't need to waste my time with you-know-what's like you...
well I understand your the inferior species anyway.....

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See what happens when you put your hood on backwards and get lost looking for BurningCrossBuzz?

I say let's help him find his way. Hey, what does 'AMMAHNAB' spell backwards?

-CO

Hey, he's got a 4.0....that's a pretty high IQ for a KKK member! ;)

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CedarPoint82 said:
Six Flags actually had net loss, whereas Cedar Fair had net profit. (This was obviously before all the big sell offs). Therefore, Six Flags was not making money.
There are many more factors that go into a parks profitability than just income and basic costs, etc

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You said it all yourself right there. The parks are profitable. However, just because the parks are profitable doesn't mean the company won't have a net loss. But I'm sure you already knew that, right?

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BATWING FAN SFA said:
Teirco became Premier shortly after the wild world purchase in 91,they re-branded Wild World as Adventure world in 94 & by that time had already purchased other smaller parks such as Gueaga lake,Darien lake & Riverside.

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Also wrong. The company's name wasn't changed to "Premier" until 1994. Darien Lake and Geauga Lake were not acquired until 1995, and Riverside not until 1997. The company owned just three properties when the name was changed to Premier (Frontier City, White Water Bay, and Adventure World).

-Nate

In the land of park sales, Six Flags typically paid more than the going market for their purchases. (Paramount paid a hefty sum for Kings Island, it was an offer Lindner couldn't pass up and he had no intentions to sell at that time)

30 years ago, the land an amusement park was built on had a low value. And so was the land area around them. Over the years, the value of the land the park owned increased and other items were developed around the park, increasing the value of all the land. In some cases, the land a park sits on is worth more than the operation of the park itself. So if a park decides to sell, they go for the highest price for the best use. If that means someone comes in and tears down the park for development then that happens.

Parks are valued a couple of different ways...asset and as an on-going business. So the owner is not usually concerned with what happens to the park when it is sold. For Six Flags, whatever gets the most money is best for the shareholders.

Park valuations are interesting. Rides can be moved. Buildings usually can't. And underperforming parks will sell at a lower value. Look at Visionland. Built at about $90 million (after refinancing) and sold for around $5 million.

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CoastaPlaya said:

I say let's help him find his way. Hey, what does 'AMMAHNAB' spell backwards?

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Backwards is right on target for that loser...because he deserves it right between the eyes. It'll leave a nice tatoo on his forehead.

There's not much that makes me say, "holy ****" anymore but his last sentence in his private message elicited one...

Side Question...Am I the only one who find it humorously ironic that the type of people who say they are the better and more intelligent race are always bucktoothed rednecks with an IQ equal to that of a fruit fly?

From the PM to 'Playa:

"I already work as an accountant, making a whole lot more $$$ than you do"

Interesting being as the fixed IP he's been posting from for at least the past 5 days is from a tree and lawn care service.

If "accountant" means "doing the books for a company that cuts grass" - then by all means, we're dealing with an accountant.

More likely "doing the books for a company that SMOKES grass"...;)

P.S. to George...stop insulting fruit flies, what'd they ever do to YOU? ;)

I know I know, I shouldn't have insulted fruit flies, but I couldn't think of any smaller life forms....

One thing though, CP82 is right about one thing, he won't be "wasting" any more time around here.

Oooh, CP82's got a point.

Folks who can only access the Web from a lawncare shop's PC are 'defintely' a lot smarter than me!

-CO

*** Edited 8/26/2004 7:20:28 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

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Lord Gonchar said:
Interesting being as the fixed IP he's been posting from for at least the past 5 days is from a tree and lawn care service.

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It's the biggest damn tree service in the area though. :) He also signed up in July from Kent State, which is a nice school, but sadly not free of stupid people either.

You know what we do with racists around here. Honestly in all of the time we've had private messages I've never had to look at someone else's. What a tool.

But he's so smart...let's all beg him to come back.

Please come back 82! I love you ya big a-hole! ;)

Do Do Do...Another One Bites the Dust...

And I didn't even have to stretch my Troll Bashing Arms in the end, he did it all himself:).

Life is good when its that easy.

WOW! What a jerk.

I keep forgetting that people like that still exist.

I hope that it doesn't jeopardise this descussion of this very interesting topic.

So what I've heard and believe so far is that SF could never sell an underperforming park for a profit because no one would want to pay a higher price, unless potential buyer buys it for land value and not for keeping open and operating.

So my theory/idea is more than likely false unless the plan backfired.

Another theory as to why SF could possibly be running their parks into the ground is so that stocks dive. Upper levels could then buy the low priced stocks and then try to raise them by fixing problems in the parks, according to Gator. Is that possible?

I have to accept the idea that maybe their IS NO CONSPIRACY :)

I personally feel the only "conspiricy" there is, is that someone wanted to screw up a proven buisness by putting the wrong people in charge. Mad at the company? Mad at coaster enthusiasts? Mat at the world in general?

You be the judge...;)

Disclaimer: incase you can't read by the smiley face above, that was a totally false statement made by me, the resident Troll Smasher...

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dexter said:

Another theory as to why SF could possibly be running their parks into the ground is so that stocks dive. Upper levels could then buy the low priced stocks and then try to raise them by fixing problems in the parks, according to Gator. Is that possible?

I have to accept the idea that maybe their IS NO CONSPIRACY

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Perhaps one of the above accountants can correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not mistaken, Six Flags executives have to report how many shares they own of the company stock and if they buy or sell the stock they have to do a SEC Filing to do so and wait x number of days before the sale can take place. This is the reason why Martha got in hot water.

Yup, I think doing that is illegal...and I'm sure the shareholders would have something to say about that.

Speaking of those folks, I'm sure they have something to say about Six Flags' performance compared to the rest of the industry (which seems to be doing well).

I think the conspiracy here is that the corporate SFI officers have been linning their pockets for a few years now. Now you see the ship that is sinking and people are starting to bail. They spent and spent and spent, drove up the value of the stock (before it crashed) put little into thier parks beyond rides and branding and made a general mess of most parks and the company as a whole.

Worlds of Adventure NEVER made one dime. That is exactly why the sale of that park at any price would reduce debt for the company. The amount needed to turn the boat around there combined with a 2 billion dollar debt and all the wasted capital investment in Aurora meant that selling the park at a measily 250 million was better than continuing to try to operate a failing park in a market that wasn't supporting it.

Selling parks even at a loss can lead to debt reduction when you consider how much less money the company has to spend from the top down. Premier (and i call them that BECAUSE so few people understand that SFI did not buy Premier. Six Flags holds much more meaning and history than that pitiful company in Okalahoma) had little experience in amusement parks before they exploded. They acted and believed that if you spent a little money in the spring on a new ride everything would take care of itself. But when that didn't happen they turned around and cut the controlables to a point where parks cannot operate properly. It is a doomed company with a doomed modle as it now exists. The brand has little to value anymore, many parks are struggling, the front office hasn't a clue it seems. Forcasts are predicting 3 dollar shares in the forseeable future and nothing indicates that anything will change that. You won't see SFI in this form for very much longer i think.

They need to continue to liquidate small parks and poor preformers, concentrate the knowledgable park people into a few parks with proven records in good sized markets. They would reduce debt and spending and be able to focus on 6 or 8 parks and create a corporate culture that works with people who know how to do it. They could focus on the quality of those few parks and bring back meaning to the brand.

Overall the problem lies in suspect business decisions and piss poor management from corporate to induvidual parks. And that is why i think people love to talk about this company. Because there is so much wrong with it.