SF America... a dissapointment
Associated parks:
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TeknoScorpion said:
coasterguts, you're logic is so flawed, are you sure you weren't born yesterday and not the 'late 60's'?
Actually, yeah I was born in the late 60's.
You know as well as I do that that makes absolutely no sense. When I go to someone's house, That is one or 2 person's personal property, and it is their right for me to leave it as I came to it. But Six Flags is a business. Owned by many people. Sure, they may have rules, but they have to deal with the general public. If parks didn't expect to have to clean up after people, they wouldn't hire people who's sole purpose was to empty garbage cans, sweep the sidewalks, and pick up trash. I'm not paying to go and visit a friend.I pay to go and visit a park, and while I don't just drop my trash on the ground, if a trashcan is full, what can ya do about it falling on the ground? That is what they pay people to do, that is why management get paid more than those people (to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to do), and that is why SFI has problems, because apparently neither the management, nor the staff are doing what they're supposed to.
I will, however, give you the award for stupidest post of the week with that comment.
Umm... We can do without the insults. If you can't discuss this nicely then don't discuss it. Heh! Six Flags has people that do pick up the trash, I see them picking up the trash, I see ride operators, ride managers, ride supervisors, management, operators. Blame someone else! Don't blame the park or the staff.
More flawed logic. This is not a perfect world, and people that run parks (who are obviously more informed about these thing than you are) know that to keep people coming back, the place should be clean. SFI apparently forgets this in some parks, hence the underlying problem. You say you have to pay extra,and thats a load of crap. You're paying extra so that a company can provide more rides for you in the future while running a successful business. Oh, and we pay the same amount you do, and I don't know about everyone, but if I'm paying $50 to spend the day somewhere, it better darn well be clean when I get there, as well as when I leave.
Dude, there is your flawed logic. Do you really think the only reason for an admission price is so the parks can add rides? No, certain part of that admission price covers labor costs. If the park adds additional staff the price will go up. That's when you will begin crying foul.
And I'm sure you've been to every single park there is in the region and can make that claim? I'm talking every single one, and been in every single bathroom.
Okay, you've got me there. However, out of BGW, PKD and HP, yes the bathrooms are by far the cleanest.
Until then, wake up for your little dreamworld and try living in a place I like to call reality.
Who is living a dream world?
Your demanding a park be clean.
I'm the one saying, yeah the parks are dirty but if everyone would do their part, it would be clean.
Your the one saying parks only charge admission to add rides.
I'm the one saying the charge admission to cover the cost of overhead and to add attractions.
*** Edited 10/15/2004 11:15:35 AM UTC by coasterguts*** *** Edited 10/15/2004 11:25:52 AM UTC by coasterguts***
If PKD can stay relatively clean, if BGW can stay spotless, if Hershey can stay spotless, if Dorney can stay clean, if just about every other park in the area can have fewer issues with trash than SFA seems to have on a relatively frequent basis, than what is the excuse?
Does everyone "do their part" at ALL of those other parks? Is there just something about your average peep at SFA that just likes to toss trash around more than peeps at other parks?
Or it could it just be that in this area, the park doesn't cut it, and a little constructive criticism might make a difference someday?
Zero-G said:
I still haven't figured out your angle Sam. Would you rather people not talk poorly about a park with the hopes that it will improve? Or should we keep our mouths shut, and that way everyone will agree SFA is a very clean park.In reality, it doesn't matter. SFA is responsible for cleaning up their messes, not you.
Did I tell people to be quiet? NO
Did I ask them for specifics? YES
Generally, when I ask for specifics, it's so I can check it out on my next visit and possibly mention it to mgt so it can be addressed (if it's reality, and not some stupid personal attack masked as a park complaint)
Look at Mind Eraser, the trash cans lining the station which I suggested to mgt have stopped almost all litter from being dropped below to the ground.
The queue in the Superman station being changed was my suggestion to mgt (wild one and JJ will follow eventually i'm told)
Trash cans in many queues were my suggestions.
We need to also keep in mind that parks read these forums and "we" can make positive impacts on the parks, provided we offer critiques in a respectable, honest manner.
Posting negative comments just to upset others is immature.
SFA isn't the greatest park in the world, but each year they tend to improve over the last (something happened to the ride ops this year in july, and that issue got worse) I believe next year may be a landmark in customer service improvements.... we shall see
SAM
Read my comments I posted on 10/1 @ 4:51pm and 10/13 @ 12:29 pm. You will see I posted several problems I have seen at SFA. I don't think I ever said the park didn't have cleanliness issues. When I pointed the issues out to management (not the Dippin Dots Guy outside the Looney Tunes Show, not to a red shirt manager, an actual tie wearing manager fully equiped with radio) the issue was looked into. It's not the parks fault!
Let's resolve this, an overflowing trash can is a park issue, people throwing trash on the ground is a people issue. If you want to Magic Kingdom quality, you have to pay $54.75, not $36.99 before discounts. For $36.99 (the cheapest of the big parks in the Mid-Atlantic) you get a litte trash on the ground. I guess what I'm saying it is a lazy general public that can't walk over and put a piece of trash in a trash can. Oh, by the way. There are plenty of trash cans around Six Flags America and I don't think I have ever seen more than one or two overflowing. *** Edited 10/15/2004 1:40:29 PM UTC by coasterguts***
Sam A. Marks said:
Posting negative comments just to upset others is immature.
On THAT point Sam, we agree entirely...I have never (to my knowledge) posted anything, negative OR positive, just to get a reaction. I post what I've seen and experienced personally, and the reason that I do so is specifically so the parks can read these forums (if they so choose), and decide where their efforts would do the most good in the future. I refuse to get involved with the argumentativeness and name-calling because that stuff *does* detract from my credibility, something I take QUITE seriously, despite all the good-natured ribbing and banter that occurs between friends. OK, on to the real point of my post...;)
However, SFA does have to be willing to admit their shortcomings before they can improve upon them. Shoot, even HW (whose won "cleanest park" for several years running) looks for ways to improve their overall cleanliness. If it is *important* to park management, it can be done....I just don't think that SFA's managers realize how detrimental it is to the overall guest experience when the grounds aren't kept clean. It remains the only park where I've ever seen an employee deposit trash on the ground (RIGHT next to a *proper receptacle*), and I have to believe that the lax attitude about "trashing the place" comes from the top-down...and believe me, as a SF stockholder - with millions of shares...;), it disappoints me.
You're the only one accusing anybody of screaming insults to the park. And you still haven't responded to me...
But then, I doubted you would.
As for coasterguts:
Who is living a dream world?
Your demanding a park be clean.
I'm the one saying, yeah the parks are dirty but if everyone would do their part, it would be clean.
Your the one saying parks only charge admission to add rides.
I'm the one saying the charge admission to cover the cost of overhead and to add attractions.
Of course I'm demanding a clean park, thats their freakin job! To offer me a good, clean experience. If they can't handle cleaning up after people like other places of business can, then they don't need to be in business.
And I never said that the only reason they charge is for rides, but you made it seem like the only reason they charge is to pay clean up people. Come off your horse already. You aren't living in reality here, and I am.
Oh, and BTW, I'm not paying a cheaper price to go to SFA and see trash on the ground, I'm paying a cheaper price because SFA, while having more coasters, dosen't have the themeing, ride experiences, and good food that Disney has. I'm not paying less to get crapped on, I'm payin less because they have a little less in terms of rides/shows/etc. I pay alot less to visit smaller, seaside amusment parks that are by far cleaner that what people here say SFA is.
Again, I had a good time @ SFA, and didn't experience these issues on the particular day I went, but enough people so obviously have that my day must have been the exception, not the rule.
Jeesh (how many do I need to hand out today?!?) *** Edited 10/15/2004 6:47:16 PM UTC by TeknoScorpion***
It's sad that you actually had to point out the use of trash cans in queues.
Sam A. Marks said:Trash cans in many queues were my suggestions.
TeknoScorpion said:
And I never said that the only reason they charge is for rides, but you made it seem like the only reason they charge is to pay clean up people. Come off your horse already. You aren't living in reality here, and I am.
Did you not say this:
You say you have to pay extra,and thats a load of crap. You're paying extra so that a company can provide more rides for you in the future while running a successful business.
I'm tired of wasting bandwidth on this subject. You have your opinion, I have mine. My stance is, the general public is lazy and rude. The more people adopt this "it's not my job" or "I'm paying someone else to do this" the more expensive things like amusement park visits are going to get. If a new CEO comes in and takes SF over, deems it's necessary to add 20 people to clean up parks, add two more operators to rides. Watch the price climb. It's not going to happen for free. *** Edited 10/15/2004 7:49:08 PM UTC by coasterguts***
I agree, the public are trashy and rude. I'm sure SFI knows this just as well as I do. But if someone does come into my home and trashes the place, then leaves, am I just going to let the trash lay on my living room floor, whilst I wait for more guests to come?
If SFI expects people to clean up after themselves, then they have more than some financial problems. They need some serious dosage of living in reality.
And that, AFAIC, is that, and all I'm willing to dish out for now. Unless Sam actually responds, which, again, I highly doubt.
*jumps and gives a high five*
Followed by
*fist pumping*
Neuski said:It's sad that you actually had to point out the use of trash cans in queues.
Sam A. Marks said:Trash cans in many queues were my suggestions.
It's not sad, it's called complaining in a way that the park listens! whining, *****ing and moaning, and being disrespectful to the parks gets you nowhere!
and therein lies my reason for not bashing parks, but taking the high road! cause it works!
SAM
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