Serious accident on Xcelerator caputerd on Video

Gonchar gets it, I think. I don't want to imply that this kind of thing is acceptable. Carrie, I agree with you that it isn't acceptable for a ride to be flinging parts at people, and in fact my signature is very much rooted in a well-known incident where someone quite clearly held a ride in serious contempt and paid dearly for it.

What I am seeing here (from 3,000 miles away) is that the ride broke, two people got hurt, but not seriously. Two people were transported to the hospital and treated, but it sounds like the treatment was little beyond first-aid. No broken bones and no overnight hospital stays, which I believe are the minimum requirements for an "accident" in Ohio (though I agree that threshold is kind of high).

I don't want to diminish the severity of the incident, but I also want to point out that this is also a far cry from, say, the drop tower incident at Kentucky Kingdom. This is more like the incident on GhostRider where the piece of lumber came loose from the edge of a track section and bounced off a couple of passengers.

Getting back to the camera angle thing...maXairMike notes that if we are looking at distortion it is in a well defined area of the screen...well, let me point out that the camera is sitting between the seats, is very close to both seats, and if the camera is moving around, because the right-hand seat is at the edge of the screen to begin with, where the lens distortion is greatest to begin with, it's very possible to get disproportionate parallax across the screen. It's the combination of the camera angle and the fish-eye lens, exacerbated by the compression. Not saying that's absolutely what happened, but it can explain the problem. My point is, our available information is pretty limited as to what actually happened on the ride.

I don't know about you, but I would love to see "after" photos of the catchcar, both sides of the train, the seat shown in the video........

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Yeah, stuff happens all right, but this should not have. I agree with Carrie on this. It was a MAJOR, totally unacceptable incident with, fortunately, MINOR injuries.

This is not the first time this has happened and hopefully it won't be treated like some other situations such as a roadway intersection. You know...like how many people have to be injured at said intersection before a traffic light is installed.

Let's get this fixed so there is no next such incident. The next person(s) may not be so fortunate.

I think we can safely assume we'll never see those pictures, Dave.

RideMan said:
Okay, now that I am not sitting at my desk where I am supposed to be doing, you know, actual •work•...

Snip

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(note: it took a while to write this. Last post before I started: TServo asking about the rope failure mode, and whether ropes are replaced periodically...that would be the last post on p3.)

All I could picture here was Kevin Costner's courtroom scene in JFK dissecting the Zapruder film for the jury. "Back, and to the right. Back, and to the right. Back..."

The only thing missing was a "Magic Bullet". :)

Reading the story that was linked on the news forum, two things bothered me. First was the statement that the ride's safety manual said nothing about what to do in case of a cable snap. That doesn't sound very assuring. Second, in the description of the video, the writer says that the debris came through the video screen. Doesn't reassure me as far as journalists knowing what they're writing about.

If we're going to discuss whether this is a major or minor incident, are we basing that on what did happen, or what could have happened?

If the cable is rated for one year of use, does that assume seasonal operation only, or is that accounting for the fact that Knott's is a year-round park and therefore puts more wear on moving parts in a year than seasonal parks do?

I can't believe there is any debate about whether or not that seat bumped up and to the left. It is clearly bumped out of place as the train is rolling backwards to a stop and stays in that position when the train stops.

I'm all for respecting the machines, they have impeccable safety records, but this is absolutely a serious incident.

82, or 128 mph steel cable shards could easily pierce through your entire skull, fly into your heart or blind your eyes! This is 100% not acceptable, ever.

In the past I have defended Intamin when people fell out of their rides, because I always believed their lap bars were fine and overweight/amputated people shouldn't have been allowed on, but this is indefensible in my opinion.

Like I said, if TTD and Kingda are still running tomorrow I would sit in the back seat.... heh. Actually, if seats are shearing off when the train runs over the broken cable, maybe I don't want to sit in the back!

I'm not sure but it looks like the boy and the dad are applying pressure to his leg, so I'm going to say he had some decent sized cut/laceration to warrant that response. A cable whipping and debris shower at 70-80 mph is serious, the people up front are lucky to be alive.

No, they were saying the park's rider safety guide didn't say anything about what to do. Why would it?

RCC, just remember that the back row will be the first to catch the debris on the rollback! ;)

The incident is that a coaster threw up parts when it wasn't supposed to do so. The only sliding scale of major/minor to me regarding that would be based on what kind of ride it was. If the carousel wants to pop a spring, I consider that minor. If an 80 mph launch coaster pops a cable (or anything else for that matter), that's pretty major to me.

Injuries are the effect, sure, but they don't drive the severity of the incident in my opinion. So I guess it's the "could have happened" that is significant to me.

The San Francisco Examiner reports that the kid was released from the hospital on Friday. With the accident happening on Wednesday at around 4pm, this means the kids injuries where serious enough to warrant two nights in the hospital.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2233-LA-Amusement-Park-Examiner~y2009m9d1...two-guests

That is really scary.

I'm pretty sure that the seat moved, too. Look at the black bar in the middle (I'm not sure what I am looking at) on the boy's side during the abrupt stop. The yellow lap bar stays in the same place and that black bar tilts, at the same angle as the headrest. It then stays there, and is not parallel to the same kind of bar on the man's side, like it was before.

...And if I am correct about that, I get really creeped out when I think of what could have happened if the train ran the rest of the course, and hit the breaks moving forward. I don't think that the boy would have been ejected, but it would might have crushed his stomach between the seat and the yellow lap bar.

Also, where there seems to be a cable above their heads as the train run backwards...The man flinches, as if he sees the cable flying towards his face, so I don't think that it was an optical illusion, such as a sunbeam or lens flair. He keeps his eyes closed a few seconds after this.

That is just horrifying...just horrifying. I'm relieved that their were no major injuries, but what concerns me the most is the mental distress that thet could have caused. PTSS is something that could affect these guys for the rest of their life.

edit - spelling

Carrie M. said:
The only sliding scale of major/minor to me regarding that would be based on what kind of ride it was.

The sliding scale for me is what could happen.

On the scale of potential injuries/incidents involving a roller coaster that launches at speeds of more than 80 mph in mere seconds, a broken cable and boo boos is on the minor end of the scale on both counts.

Launching the train airborne over the top hat and landing on the other side of La Palma Ave would be major. :)

I wouldn't expect the park rider's safety guide to say that. But the article only says safety guide, which links to the rider's guide. I never follow links posted like that in articles, since they almost always lead to something that has nothing to do with the story.

Dave, I fully realize your reluctance to make this incident seem any more serious than it is, but I am almost certain (can't say 100% because it is just one source of evidence) that seat back moves. That is not the camera moving, as everyone except the seat back in question is still in roughly the same exact spot. The seat back, however, has moved quite a bit. Maybe do a transparency image with two frames overlapped (one before the jolt, one after) to do comparisons on the people and train and their positioning?

Lord Gonchar said:

On the scale of potential injuries/incidents involving a roller coaster that launches at speeds of more than 80 mph in mere seconds, a broken cable and boo boos is on the minor end of the scale on both counts.

Launching the train airborne over the top hat and landing on the other side of La Palma Ave would be major. :)

Holy extreme examples, Batman! :)

But, seriously, I don't know. What constitutes a boo boo to you? A two day stay in the hospital sounds bigger than a boo boo to me. I mean, really... imagine if that boy didn't have health care coverage! D'oh! (just kidding, folks! Please do not go there with this discussion. I was just jabbing a friend in the ribs a little. :) )

I think that it's safe to say that KBF will be paying his boo boo bills...and possibly therapy.

Carrie M. said:
...imagine if that boy didn't have health care coverage! D'oh!

You're awesome. :)

Likewise. :)

It is very difficult to tell if anything in the seat area was deformed. The geometric distortion we see in the camera is because the camera has turned slightly to the right during the impact. If you compare the edges of the video frame before and after, you will see this is definitely the case.

Also, I believe when Dave suggests we 'respect' the rides, he is not referring to respecting the number of injury free runs a ride makes, but rather respect the speed and forces involved and what can happen due to ride failure or rider foolishness.

Watching the video in slow motion, the laceration to the kids leg occurs just before the rollback. He is looking to the right with both his hands on the lapbar, then an expression of pain appears on his face, he looks down at his leg and puts his left hand on his leg.

Shortly after this, a flat object, that appears to be about the size of a forearm with a white middle and grey border flies past both of them and both riders look at it. The object may appear bigger than what it was because it was in front of the camera, but it is definately there as both riders look at it. IMO it looks like fibreglass train debris not the cable.

When the train returns the boy's seat moves, the arm rest raises up and the seat back comes forward and leans to the right. The arm rest appears to return to its orginal position, but the back rest remains out of place.