Serious accident on Xcelerator caputerd on Video

LostKause said:

IntaminHater, I have noticed it to be easier to express unpopular views around here lately too. It seems that the CoasterBuzzers who have stuck around have learned to tolerate other's opinions. We are better expressing ourselves in more productive ways. ...Maybe we are all finally growing up. :-P

I think what he meant was that he seems to be acquiring more evidence to support his points. We CBuzzers are just as intolerant as ever... ;)

I think I'm with Jeff here. Unless there is evidence that the cable was defective or installed incorrectly or not maintained according to specifications, then the fault in a cable mishap falls to the ride manufacturer. They design the ride and the specifications that are meant to keep the ride running without incident.

Jeff said:

Not a lot of braking on highways. :)

Dont ever move or commute to DC then. But im totally impressed with 105k as well..

Back up a second. I think the seat issue doesn't make much difference *in this case*. That doesn't make it completely unimportant, but it does mean that in considering injuries *in this case* it does not appear to be relevant by itself.

Backing up even further...Intamin does not manufacture the wire ropes used on their rides. They do, however, perform the engineering analysis that determines the exact specifications on the rope to be used. That's where things can get a little sticky when you're trying to determine who is at fault: if the wire rope was defective, and did not meet the specifications promised by the wire rope manufacturer, then it's a manufacturing problem. If the rope met the manufacturer's specs but did not meet Intamin's specs, then it is an Intamin problem. Why? Because Intamin bought the rope from the OEM and sold it as an Intamin part. If the rope met all the specs and failed, then it's really an Intamin problem because that indicates that their engineering was wrong. Unless the rope failed due to a failure of operation or maintenance, in which case it's back to Knott's again.

This is all based on possible scenarios we know nothing about. What we do know is that based on the four possibilities I just outlined, there is a 50% probability that Intamin is "to blame" for the failure, and because Intamin resells as their own an OEM product, I wonder if that means the probability goes up to 75% for not performing adequate quality control on the OEM product (any attorneys in the house?). In other words, from a legal perspective, given four equally probably scenarios, three of them point to Intamin as being liable for the failure.

Personally, I don't like to think in those terms. I don't care whose fault it is. I want to know what failed and how to keep it from happening again. And if that isn't possible, then I'd like to know if there are other safeguards that can be put into place to mitigate the hazards if the failure does happen again. (I can think of one safeguard off-hand that I would like to see Knott's employ, but that's my own personal bias...hint: it would allow me to ride the dumb thing.)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

*raises hand* I know! I know! :)

Yeah, I get it too. Can you imagine KBF going to the other extreme and requiring them? That would make me feel comfortable about the possibility of injury...

"Boarding riders must wear the safety goggles provided. Please fasten the goggles securely and keep your hands in front of your face to guard against the possibility of flying shrapnel. Enjoy your ride on Xcelerator!"

Well, I just had a chance to talk with my dad (wo works with rigging and heavy equipment) about the cable snap.

According to him (and his 20 years of experience), cables like the ones on Xcelerator fail from the inside out, as the result of too many cycles.

The ONLY other way the cable would've failed is if something nicked one of the strands.

It would likely be easier for Intamin or the effected parks to sue the cable manufacturer if it goes down litigation road. At least one (maybe both) of the two would have contracts with the cable manufacturer, so it would be easier to recover for negligence since they'd be owed a good product.

But, it would technically be possible for a patron to sue the cable manufacturer if they can prove the company knew the cables were imminently dangerous (this might be difficult to prove, since the park could theoretically contribute to this negligence by not changing the cable).

At least that's how I understand it.

Hopman said:
According to him (and his 20 years of experience), cables like the ones on Xcelerator fail from the inside out, as the result of too many cycles.

I'm sure all cables fail after too many cycles. The questioon really is how many in this application would be too many. Seems like we have a number now. But since it wasn't anticipated, it became a problem.

I think the seat issue doesn't make much difference *in this case*. That doesn't make it completely unimportant, but it does mean that in considering injuries *in this case* it does not appear to be relevant by itself.

Agreed. It does not appear that the seat's movement was enough to cause what I'd call "serious harm"---as far as we can tell from the video. But, I'm *very* curious as to how it happened in what appears to be a situation with relatively minor forces.

Do we know how often the cables have been replaced in the past?

How often is too often? Will we begin to see the cables replaced every month? Every week? Every day?

How much testing, on the ride itself, is required when replacing the cable anyway?

After this, will Intamin spec out a heavier cable (say 1.5-2 times as strong) with a more frequent repcement interval?

Also, would the same requieremnts apply to all other launched coasters?

Why do you ask all of these questions that no one here can answer?

Speculation Jeff.

I ask because there's SOMEBODY here who might have a clue.

I can answer! Every day of course. Guests will have 5 minutes of operational time per day to ride.

Do we even know that the cable was an Intamin OEM part? The park could have bought the cable from another supplier. If I have, let's say, a drive shaft replaced on my car made and sold by company X which claims it will work to factory specs, could I hold VW responsible if it fails prematurely? I don't think so.

New question....regarding California law....I think I remember reading a detailed report regarding the failure that occurred with the death on BTMR. Was the report released to the public because of death, or because of injury?

I am wondering if we will get to see the actual failure report about XLR8R at some point as well. (obviously there were no deaths...only injuries)

Does anyone know the current status of the ride... is it now SBNO for the rest of the year? and when it reopens is anyone (gp) gonna ride something that could be dangerous... this is one of those sad things in the amusement industry... good luck KBF, atendence may go down shortly

Any word on how the two are doing? That was really scary to see! I have not conquered Top Thrill Dragster because I have a fear of that happening! After seeing that, I feel for me I will wait to conquer that! I do love The other coasters that are there at Cedarpoint. I hope that everything will be ok for the riders who got hurt!

Jeff said:

coasterguy3014 said:
Now I know what your saying about this being of public interest however that only goes so far. I will ask one of my professors tomorrow ill find out tomorrow...

You do that, and remember that there has to be something said that was absolutely false (i.e., not an opinion), and there has to be damage to the company's reputation. Even then, what would they get out of the dude? A grand? That wouldn't pay for the time spent getting a court order for his identity.

And before you start writing legal briefs... your and you're were not created equal.

Well I did ask after all, and got the final word. While he did like where I went with his screen name, in the end I failed on many fronts to prove a potential case. There was nothing harsh enough said that would not fall under protection by the first amendment. Now on a side note Jeff... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all words are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.