Rollercoaster Rollback - Herb Schmeck

Ron S. - While both Phoenix and Coaster are air-filled masterpieces, they are very different experiences. Phoenix is far more 'fun' than the ultra-agressive, violent PNE Coaster.

The closest thing to Coaster (as far as violent air time goes) that I've experienced is the Georgia Cyclone, but I found Coaster to be the better overall ride.

-----------------
Can we go to Vancouver now?

*** This post was edited by chris on 10/23/2002. ***

---

Ansley said:
The GE Comet is a wonderful ride, with great speed, airtime, awesome laterals on some of the track jogs, and it is a long ride. It is a top 10 caliber coaster IMHO. For those that haven't ridden it, think of it as the Phoenix on steriods. The only part of the GE Comet that is not top notch is the first drop, which is average. From the first turnaround on the GE Comet can compete with great CCIs.

---

You couldn't have summed it up any better. The first drop and next hill for that matter aren't anything spectacular, but GE's comet kept getting better a better till the end. the layout of the comet reminded me of the Villain at SFWoA, but the comet Packs more laterals. Also what I love about the Comet is the variety of air, meaning it offers quick ejection, subtle floating, and a few spots of ejection accompanied by laterals where you end up either in the other person seat or out of the train :). I may put it up there with the Dash and Raven.

Charles:

Allen could have learned countless things from Schmeck and Miller, but in a way, I'm glad he didn't... Allen kind of carved his own niche during the sixties and seventies. Schmeck and Miller designs are more extreme than Allen designs, and in the age of theme parks that tried to appeal to everyone, I think that the less severe Allen designs were more appropriate. As much as I love Schmeck's work, I don't think that a Wildcat would have worked well at Kings Island. But I know exactly what you're saying...

As far as the Thunderhawk unbraked, how did you luck out like that? I'm jealous! How was it... was the airtime on the return stretch wild like I imagined it would be?

John Allen made no secret of the fact that he didn't like twisters. When he took over the reigns of PTC the firms coasters took on the flying out and back charecteristics that he prefered. That is with the exception of the late lamented Mr. Twister at Elitchs.With the space constraints there wasn't much else that he could have put in there. While it was considered one of his highpoints by enthusiasts, it was one he really didn't like to talk about.

Mr. Schmeck, on the other hand could build them that left you gasping for air and/or more. His Wildcats were legendary. I would have liked to have ridden the one at Coney Island in Cinci.

*** This post was edited by Dutchman on 10/24/2002. ***

Don't be so quick to criticize Allen, he's designed more successful coasters than everyone on this forum combined:).

His coasters may not be as intense or well maintained (that's not his fault), but they are fun. Airtime is a proven equation, as are racers and such. It's no Schmeck intensity, but it's schmeck fun.

Back to Schmeck:

I've only been on the Thunderhawk, Comet, and Phoenix:(. However, Thunderhawk is AMAZING. I know it's trimmed, but you only miss out on one or two hills, the rest of the ride is intense enough to compensate. The comet is amazing, I love it for its view and ride, although the bunny hops are a little gentle. Finally, the Phoenix is easily top 5. If only I could fit it in my house...

-----------------
How many rides must a man go on, before you may call him a fan?

Dutchman said:

I would have liked to have ridden the one at Coney Island in Cinci.

But you are in luck! You still can. I believe it is called the Grizzly and is available near both the East and West coasts and even in Austraila so there will always be a little Schmeck magic at a convienent location near you :)

OK...I feel stupid. What's the Rollercoaster Rollback?

Moosh - also a Schmeck fan [and P&C, and Keenon, and Miller, and....]

-----------------
Sig under construction

I *think* you're kidding, 'Moosh, but just for everyone's knowledge base, Rollback ir run/maintained by RideMan (Dave Althoff, Jr.). It's a listing of "today in coaster history", and shows up at the bottom of the main coasterbuzz page, www.coasterbuzz.com. In case anyone has any VERIFIABLE tidbits they know of and wants to add to the rollback, I'm pretty sure Dave would be interested. It's very cool to check out when I get to work in the morning...well, sometimes before bed...;)

The main rollback page is: http://www.coasterbuzz.com/rollback/

Finally, it's been fun to read accounts and opinions of their rides, and I'll throw in here that it's my OPINION that Schmeck built wilder rides for his time that are STILL enthusiast-type hardcore intensity. (Some have been braked for more "modern sensibilities" it's true, but they're still serving up some pretty good rides, no?). John Allen was building a different STYLE of ride for a different time, when it was important to bring FAMILIES back to the parks. They did JUST that, and while they may be "milder" for enthusiast sensibilities, they brought people BACK to amusement parks! Attendance soared, and with it came the money that has brought us to the most recent wave of expansion, which seems to have peaked in '00, and there is still building going on, but I BELIEVE we're ready for a little less "expansion" of the parks and a little more *care and restoration". Another great site to check out for "enthusihistorians" (ouch!) is http://history.amusement-parks.com/, run by Adam who posts here *on occasion*.

We were "phortunate" to meet the webmasters behind both of those sites at our "phirst" PPP...;).

-----------------
"CCXXVI....will the drop ever stop?"
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle....unless you've got a spare planet!

Rollergator, you hit the nail on the head. John was the right man at the right time when it came to his tenure at PTC. I am not criticizing his work, just stating his opinion. Like I said he made no secret of the fact that he liked fast out and backs. Nothing wrong with that.

I really think Allen learned a lot from his for runners, it's just that that wasn't his deal.

Go rie Twister at Knoebel's and tell me his designs were lacking. He definitely had the potential. He rebuilt and rebuilt Mr. Twister until he got it right. It's spawn Twister is amazing.

Also Allen's out and backs are glourios. GASM is some of his Finest work as is Skyliner,

Allen made what he was asked to make simple as that. The worst Allen out there is still beter then 50 percent of al other coasters.

As for Shcmeck, I have rode three of his rides and to honestly yell you the truth to me each of them could be just as easiliy attributd to Allen. Phoenix is simply amazing but is very Allen like.

Comet while starting out as a Twiser goes to out and back form ala Allen.

Thunderhawk also feels like an Allen.

To me the difference bettween the to seems to be that Schmeck semed to use very low to the ground bunnys while Allen wen for te more parabolic approach.

I always thought Allen took on a LOT more from Miller then Schmeck but you can see the commonality of all the PTC designs.

-----------------
PPP Quote of the Year:
"I got a B and M shirt"

Let's go ride The Fonicks

MagnumForce:

I disagree with you about the Thunderhawk and Phoenix feeling like Allen rides... I think that those two rides perfectly illustrate the Schmeck style of roller coaster design. You said so yourself about Allen's speed hills being parabolic... those speed hills seem to offer more of a floating sensation, which I feel the Thunderhawk and Phoenix definitely lack. The airtime on those coasters is more of the ejector type, if you ask me. Then again, it is a matter of opinion and I respect that.

I do agree that Allen designs tend to take more from the Miller book of design rather than the Schmeck book, probably because Allen and Miller are known for their out-and-backs while Schmeck is known for his infamous twisting Wildcats. I also agree wholeheartedly that Allen designs are stunningly beautiful, particularly GASM but even his smaller works like the Lake Winnie Cannonball and Panama City Starliner. Then again, I can't say that I have come across too many ugly woodies, except for maybe some of CCI's steel-structured creations (Villian comes to mind even though its a fantastic ride.)

It seems to me that Schmeck and Allen were both perfect for the eras in which they designed coasters. Whether that was on purpose or was accidental is the mystery to me. I am thankful that we are still able to enjoy the works of both designers with so many examples of their work still in operation today. Both designers hold a place in my enthusiast heart- Allen because he designed the Hunt's Pier Flyer (my first coaster), and Schmeck because he designed my all-time fav, the Phoenix.

Actually, Gator, I wasn't kidding. I have the News & Forums main pages bookmarked, so I never go to the C-buzz main page. I'd never seen the Rollback until you mentioned it.

Thanks!

Moosh

-----------------
Coaster & Amusement Park Christmas Cards and Merchandise...coming soon! Details in new sig any day now!

Well, then I guess it's safe to *assume* you hadn't seen the personal buzz control panel, also WAY down at the bottom....it's great to help keep your *buzz* at a nice comfortable level...;)...and to keep an eye on stuff of particular interest...

bill, ready for the weekend like I haven't been in awhile....