Roller Coaster Tycoon 2's Dive Loop

hahaha, soy bean milk stalls! yea have to agree with you backhand, he does procrastinate alot in thrill rides and some elements, but then it is easier to build a diveloop from stratch, it's like: 'why didn't he make cobrarolls'? it can be built with 2 half loops and 2 corkscrews!

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Colossus [1]
Nemesis: Inferno [6]

If customers have bought the product and do not like certain aspects, they have the right to voice their opinion. After all, it is the customer's money that ends up being the programmer's profits.

What amazes me about it is the half-finished scenery in the game also that independent people have finished off and created custom scenery. Example, the wood and tin roofs with sides, corners, tops, etc. While a wonderful game, and very complex, some things were done halfway, most likely to meet a release date.

Being a programmer myself, I am in utter awe to what Chris Sawyer has done with Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. He has taken an idea from him own mind, planned it out, and developed the entire thing on his own. Most software that big requires huge armies of developers to complete in the same amount of time and that is usually in C++ or some 4GL language, not assembly. When you look at the single handed accomplishment this man made to get this game to the public, you might not be so quick to criticize what he has done.

As for your dive loop, I can tell you right now that each new coaster element that is added requires tons of painstaking development to get it right. That is why many coasters in the game share the same elements with just different track and have none to few special elements of their own. As stated in one of his previous articles, the flat rides are the hardest thing for him to create, to get all the animations correct. Take that into account when you are b****ing for new flats in the next expanision. I think there may be one or two new flats and the rest of the flats will all get additional themes.

Again, look at what this man has done before your criticize because as a high level developer myself, I know I could never do what he has done.

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Bob Hansen

Operation Wicked Twister
Goal: Lose enough weight (50lbs) to ride Wicked Twister in 2K3
Progress: 25 pounds since 1-1-2003

Here's how I do Dive Loops (On the B&M coasters) -

Flat piece, sharp angle (to get that smooth upward transition), vertical piece (as many as needed to get the height correct), twisting vertical piece, quarter loop, large half loop, flat piece.

Here's a screenshot

Looks better than the half loop/corkscrew. Those of you that use the half loop/inline twist are making either an immelman or a twist and dive (like Manhattan Express), not a dive loop. I don't see the logic in using the twist in a dive loop at all, dive loops don't twist and they don't kick back at 180 degrees. All loops go vertical at some point, even if just for a instant. Unless you make the dive loop VERY large, it looks fine to me using the above method.

Seems like the best option to me.

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www.coasterimage.com

*** This post was edited by Lord Gonchar 4/23/2003 2:51:50 PM ***

I dislike that method only because the half loop doesn't land on the same level as the twist. If you just add track to make it level it doesn't look very realistic. A simple half dive loop/half immelmann would do. I know it takes a lot to program but I still think he should've made it instead of some of the useless stalls he's made.

Kick The Sky: I understand that flat rides take a tremendous amount of time to make due to tons of graphics that need to be created. However there are just a few things that he should've really done to make RCT2 complete, such as the dive loop transition, and I wouldn't have minded waiting a few more months for the game to come out if it included that transition.

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Backhand, who thinks signatures like this are redundant

Lord Gonchar, I totally disagree with you. When going into a dive loop - before you are inverted, the coaster never goes straight up. It usually goes at a 35-50 degree angle (that's an estimate) but NEVER (pardon my caps, I just wanted to emphasize "never") go straight up. Of course if you are thinking of going into the dive loop the opposite way, the dive loop would actually made more sense, but that would not be a true dive loop. And yes, some coasters do almost turn you around on dive loops for example Kraken.

Although I am not a programmer myself, I am very big into technology and know a lot about it, I think it is safe to say it would not have been extrememly difficult (correct me if I'm wrong) to create a dive loop option. Also, I do think that Chris Sawyer did waste a little of his time with all of his (in a way) "little kid rides" for most of us like to build coasters. [My opinion of course.] I just don't find joy in plopping a premade ride down and watching it go.

Hopefully in his expantion pack he will improve upon this issue. The next thing he'll have to do is strata-coasters and make all of our lives easier by just adding an option to add a tunnel when building the coaster, instead of building it later. Also, an over banked turn (wing over) would be nice. And if you think I'm ignorant, I'm not. I have been on hundreds of coasters in the US, Japan, Spain, Mexico, German, and the United Kingdom. I have been around and I know what I'm talking about. Although this is a different subject, I do not appreciate anyone calling me ignorant. Remember before replying - this is my opinion. Constructive criticism is the key!

OK then, here's something for you... you're working in an isometric world. Look at the complexity of what's going on in the game... there is a lot of it. To add more angles you require more physics calculation, more rendered sprites (for each train) and the requirement of making it fit with the exisiting pieces.

Gonchar's solution looks and works just fine. I think you guys are being ridiculous.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

coasterMNguy-

Granted there'd be no veritcal point on the upside, but coming down I do believe there is. Still I understand what you're saying. The entry to a dive loop is somehwere between a twist and a half corkscrew piece. That's the missing element everyone seems to be moaning about.

My dive loop kicks out at 90 degrees (very similar to Mantis - http://www.joyrides.com/cedar_point/photos/mantis3.jpg)

It still feels better than the 180 kick back as even Kraken doesn't do a 180 degree exit(http://www.geocities.com/grif24cwm/kraken18.jpg - copy & paster the URL) - it's more like 135 degrees. The actual reverse of direction seems to be complete in the zero-g roll. (which now that I look at it from that angle is probably why Kraken has the single best zero-g roll anywhere :) )

I think some of you are asking for too much from a game that was originally designed as an amusement park sim with an emphasis on coaster options. It was the public reaction that turned the game into what it is, I think the game did a total turnaround from what Chris Sawyer originally thought it'd be. The "Tycoon" games were all sim games first and foremost. Some people are trying to turn RCT into a roller coaster designing program. I think many of you would be happier playing something like No Limits. RCT isn't meant to be a top notch roller coaster design tool. It's meant to be a game where one element of playing is the ability to create your own layouts. The RCT community has twisted what the game was intended to be so far that it's ridiculous.

As far as including the piece in the game. It'll never happen. Would it look like Mantis' or Kraken's? Then people would complain about the way it looked - "I wanted it like this".

The closest thing that would be possible, would be to include the stretched out entry piece and have it hit perpendicular to the entry point (like a half corkscrew) and then use the half loop to complete the inversion...and you can hold your breath until the end of time and you're still not seeing it in RCT (Nor do I think it's necessary)

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www.coasterimage.com

Jeff, I suppose you are right. When I put up this topic my only idea was to get other people's opinions. It would be nice, but not totally necessary. Also, I do agree with your last post but I strongly dislike the graphics on No Limits and enjoy the graphics on RCT2 much better.