Robb & Sarah's coaster home movies

Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:41 PM
I accidentally erased their e-mail offer for a copy of their 2001 coaster videos. Does anyone have their web site adress? Thanks
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Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:01 PM
If you go to "Latest Sites" go to "Theme Park Review" that is the site.
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Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:47 PM
Got it, thanks.
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Monday, November 26, 2001 10:42 AM
Yay, if you buy Robb Alvey's Coaster Season 2001 you can see me waving from the Mine Ride control panel and checking lap bars too!

-Natalie
I'm a superstar cause I'm on Discovery too!

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Monday, November 26, 2001 10:51 AM
so this video you speak of, its VHS right? sorry, im white...
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Monday, November 26, 2001 11:18 AM
I'm wondering how Robb is allowed to sell video of these coasters?

It's a great idea, not unlike coastergallery.com selling photos but the are so many legal issues to take into consideration that it usually can't be done. To my understanding Robb has been doing this (selling videos) for a few years now.

I have tons of videos and pics of very high quality that I'd love to sell to other enthusiasts but worry about the legal issues. As far as my understanding goes the rides are basically park property and any monetary gain from using their property without permission is sure to land you in court.

So how's he do it year after year?

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Monday, November 26, 2001 1:51 PM
As long as it is your photograph or video, it would be legal to sell it.  It's the same as taking a picture of the skyline of a city.  You don't have to ask permission of the people who own the buildings.  It's your property.

The parks own copyrights, and logos.  Take your own photos and videos.  Don't take them off of someone else's site, and dont scan stuff in promotional material.  It's then your property and yours to sell.

-----------------
"Reality" is the only word in the language which should always be used in quotes.

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Monday, November 26, 2001 5:14 PM
That's not true, kpjb. To videotape or photograph most coasters you have to be on the park's private property and thus need their permission. Photos and videos taken from public property could be used.

I'm not sure on the technical details on a full skyline but for individual buildings that are privately owned (not government or public property) cannot be photgraphed without permission. I know this one because I've been stopped more than once.

It all comes down to public vs private property. I couldn't come onto your lawn and take photos of your house and sell them without your permission. I could stay on public property and do the same however; you'd still at least have a case in court if I profit from the image of your home but whether you'd win or not is a whole different issue.

Basically my understanding of the laws (I enjoy photography) is that anything taken from inside the parks would need permission to sell (not personal use) and anything from public property would be a grey area at best.

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Monday, November 26, 2001 7:44 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if I can apply a similar principle to my FACE, which apparently appears on Robb's latest video :) (Not that I really care, I'm actually pretty surprised anyone would WANT my face on a video, but hey, weirder things have happened)

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--Greg
"Beat the rush, sign up for your post-Mean Streak MRI now..."
My page  My other page  And my coaster page

*** This post was edited by GregLeg on 11/27/2001. ***

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Monday, November 26, 2001 8:05 PM
Ummm, actually you probably can GregLeg. One must have model releases for any recognizable face in a photograph you intend to profit from. That's an open and shut case.

Not sure of the actual rules concerning video though. I'd imagine they're roughly the same.

Like I said before, I have a high interest in this because I have hundreds of pics I could sell and hours of video footage that's equally good. Yes I plan on doing a site eventually (procrastination sucks) but if I could simply profit from these rather than just sharing them I'd be a happy guy.

So far I've seen no one be able to do it. I imagine Robb's videos either slip under the radar or are a small enough deal that perhaps the parks don't care.

Still I'm the type of guy that's not exactly looking forward to receiving cease and desist letters from park lawyers... no matter how slim the chance.

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Monday, November 26, 2001 8:51 PM
I ordered the videos today and I'm very excited Robb's going to provide us with this excellent compilation on 2 videos this year! I've been waiting a long time to ride some and these and to see other people riding and having a good time is as much if not more of a treat than riding the real thing in person. Thanks Robb and I'm sure this will more than hold me over until May for the new Discivery shows. Good luck selling!
-----------------
Danny

PKI 2002- "The Rollercoast is Toast!"

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 4:50 AM
Lord Gonchar, you said something very important up there:

One must have model releases for any recognizable face in a photograph you intend to profit from.

Robb gets away with selling his videotape because it's not a profit-making venture...proceeds from the sale of the tape are not sufficient to cover the production and mailing costs, and therefore it is not a commercial venture.

Whether that is adequate legal protection or not, I couldn't tell you. But that's his argument.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:13 AM
It's not really that easy, Dave. By that logic people can rip off my photos online and repost them because I'm not making money and they're not making money. Profit and commercial validity is not a component of copyright.

The one way around this is if you're shooting something for a bona fide news story and presenting it as such. News organizations need to make money, sure, but they aren't doing so by outright selling the media to the consumer.

I don't think anyone is going to care that Robb sells a couple dozen copies of his tape, but if he did a lot more I wouldn't want to be in his position.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:29 AM
Exactly my thoughts, Jeff. At this point his videos just aren't a big enough deal to matter to the parks. I've never seen one but from the looks of it and from what everyone says they seem like they'd be good. Maybe I'll order one before the whole thing gets too big.

I guess my answer is that he's simply slipping under the radar at this point.

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:12 AM
Well, he definitely needs to be careful.  I like his videos, but there are a few problems with them, not the least of which is his illegally obtained footage (on-ride shots without park permission).  Robb does a good job of securing his camera, but it still bothers me a bit that he techincally breaks park rules to get his shots.

Addition -- a few people asked me why this bothers me when he does a good job securing the camera. The answer is simple -- it sets a bad precindent. I took some pictures of Phantom's Revenge from the top of Pittfall *WITH* persmission of the park, and as I was getting off we spotted some people who DIDN'T have permission taking pictures. Why? "Because we thought it was Ok". So imagine what happens when random people spot a video camera in use... Said random people might think "Hey, look at that, it's Ok" and NOT take the same precautions Robb does. Rules are there for a reason; I'm NOT bad-mouthing Robb here, because he DOES produce excellent quality videos, but I AM stating some concern over SOME of thst footage.

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--Greg
"Beat the rush, sign up for your post-Mean Streak MRI now..."
My page  My other page  And my coaster page

*** This post was edited by GregLeg on 11/27/2001. ***

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Friday, November 30, 2001 1:54 PM
Just to clear things up here a bit, in almost all of the segments I do have the parks permission to take the camera onride.  I will usually call ahead and talk to the appropriate people, or in some cases, where that's not available, have the camera in plain site for the operators to ask me to put it away.  For example, on Acrophobia, ride op just told me "you hang on tight to that, ok?"  There have been many isntances where I have been asked to put the camera away, or leave it in the station.  No problem I do as i'm told.  (unless it's SFO and you can't even take video while in the station or something!  =) )

--Robb

Order Robb Alvey's 2001 Coaster videos at:

www.themeparkreview.com

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Friday, November 30, 2001 2:03 PM
Sounds good Rob! :)
-----------------
CP! Still the coaster capital of the world in 2002!
My fellow Americans; Let's Roll!
WoodenCoaster.com
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Saturday, December 1, 2001 6:31 AM
See, I believe my coaster pictures are MINE, they are my memories, I can compare what I have taken & when with other photos elsewhere & other people's stuff. I've met a few people, who take the pictures of the coasters they ride, like myself. To have some thoght like LG's, to think maybe I should cash in on my stuff, is lame, IMO. You go to parks for fun, "but if I could simply profit from these rather than just sharing them I'd be a happy guy." :(.

Taking video & photos on ride is STUPID, I don't care who you are, what you do, why you do it, why you feel like it's OK that you do it. As for a camera going on Acrophobia, we rode the first week that thing was open, & I almost didn't get to ride because of my glasses. I cannot see without them, riding something would make me sick. The ops told me NO GLASSES, even though mine were script, and strapped. They had to physicaly check them & make a decision based off that. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that ride with somebody up there with a video camera. YOU may be able to secure something, but how does the park KNOW that people can, they can't be assured 100%, so that's why they usually aren't allowed(for most people). I wait for next trains when I see guys getting to tote cameras, I will not ride with people filming.

As for selling vids, he could always just sell "shells" with "protective sleeves", postage, packaging, and the video shells just happen to have material on them for "Not for sale purposes", and you'll get no slack. I've been watching bootleg anime tapes for years and that's how it's done, LOL.

*** This post was edited by p_c_r on 12/1/2001. ***

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