Reporter for Dallas paper brings up the beer for sale at SFOT issue.

Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:10 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

jive2 said:
This seems to be an internet thing. I'm sure that some of you follow parks on Facebook. Have you ever read the comments there?

It's painful.

It feels good to know someone else sees it. :)


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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:38 PM
mlnem4s's avatar

Does anyone else stop to think that for as far as we have come in American society we still have so far to go?

I find it incredibly ironic that the United States labels itself "the land of the free" or "the greatest nation on Earth" and Americans extoll the virtues of "freedom, freedom, freedom" yet at every turn we still face ignorance, bigotry, prejudice and those who want to take our god given rights away, such as this topic example. There is a significant, though not majority, group of religious people who will stop at nothing to "purify" the country of all "they deem evil." Yet who are they to make such determinations? Even worse, who are they to say that African Americans or Latinos or Asians or GLBT individuals or even someone who wants to enjoy a glass of wine or beer do not have a rightful place in this society? How does one become a self-annointed disciple to determine how the lives of others will be conducted or who can and cannot be included in this society?

I have researched this a lot out of my frustration over how things are going in the United States and honestly, I have discovered places like the Netherlands, for example, who equal the USA (if not beat it) in measurables such as quality of life, health, education, job growth, very low unemployment, etc. I dare say it is time for some people, such as the blog poster in this topic, to take their head out of the sand and "get real."

Last edited by mlnem4s, Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:40 PM
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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:44 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar

It's not just religious people and it's not just the conservatives either (said as someone who is about as far left as you'll find in Texas).


Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:54 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

Actually, the blog poster is just exercising his/her own privilege of freedom by expressing an opinion without the fear/concern of authoritative consequence. And unless the poster is in an authoritative role and planning on using that power to oppress the rights of others, then no one's rights to anything have been compromised.

What makes this country great is the way everyone has the ability to challenge each other's ways of thinking the way this person is trying to. The real mark of a celebrated free society is standing next to someone you disagree with so much that your blood boils and yet still celebrating that person's ability and willingness to express what they believe in.

You may have been referring to some extreme situations when you posted your remarks. But this person's blog is far from an act of oppression or an indication of someone who has crossed any lines.


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:10 PM
Jeff's avatar

mlnem4s said:
I find it incredibly ironic that the United States labels itself "the land of the free" or "the greatest nation on Earth" and Americans extoll the virtues of "freedom, freedom, freedom" yet at every turn we still face ignorance, bigotry, prejudice and those who want to take our god given rights away, such as this topic example.

You mean like these people?

The only negative of freedom is that stupid people get a voice too, but I think that's a price that's well worth it. What concerns me as of late is the volume of the stupidity, and worse, the people who buy into it as some sort of truth.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:19 PM
rollergator's avatar

If stupidity "sells", then WAY too many people are buying. Look at Faux News' ratings... ;)

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:28 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

Right, because that blog post was exactly like what those protesters were doing and saying. That's a pretty giant leap being made.


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:33 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Jeff said:

The only negative of freedom is that stupid people get a voice too, but I think that's a price that's well worth it. What concerns me as of late is the volume of the stupidity, and worse, the people who buy into it as some sort of truth.

What concerns me is treating one person's opinion as less valid than another's.

I fully believe that everyone has a voice no matter how ridiculous it seems and in the end majority rules. If the majority is stupid, then we do stupid things - it's what the masses want.

Doesn't seem any more complicated than that. :)

And when a person (or people) of power or influence go against that majority because they think they "know better" then we're in an ugly, scary place.

mlnem4s said:
I find it incredibly ironic that the United States labels itself "the land of the free" or "the greatest nation on Earth" and Americans extoll the virtues of "freedom, freedom, freedom" yet at every turn we still face ignorance, bigotry, prejudice and those who want to take our god given rights away, such as this topic example. There is a significant, though not majority, group of religious people who will stop at nothing to "purify" the country of all "they deem evil." Yet who are they to make such determinations? Even worse, who are they to say that African Americans or Latinos or Asians or GLBT individuals or even someone who wants to enjoy a glass of wine or beer do not have a rightful place in this society? How does one become a self-annointed disciple to determine how the lives of others will be conducted or who can and cannot be included in this society?

I find great irony in the fact that someone arguing for the "land of the free" is telling people not to tell people what to do. (think about it)

I suppose from a different angle your comments are ignorance, bigotry and predjudice again the people you're complaining about. Face it, you don't like it because they're not doing what you would like to see them do...which is the exact same action they're doing in the first place.

It's a crazy circle known as debate and the only way we're truly free is if that circle exists. The second it doesn't exist...well, go back to the first half of this post.


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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:35 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say, too. *sigh*


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:52 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Yeah, I just ripped you off. :)


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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:07 PM

Lord Gonchar said:
If the majority is stupid, then we do stupid things - it's what the masses want.

Thats absolutely true.

Folks expressing their views on blogs do not worry me. Politicians enacting their views (and those of lobbyists) into legislation does.

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:09 PM
Jeff's avatar

Lord Gonchar said:
What concerns me is treating one person's opinion as less valid than another's.

I fully believe that everyone has a voice no matter how ridiculous it seems and in the end majority rules. If the majority is stupid, then we do stupid things - it's what the masses want.

No, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean it's valid. If I believe the grass is purple and orange striped, I'm entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't make it valid.

I too believe everyone has a voice, but I'm not inclined to let the stupid rule. I saw Idiocracy. Imagine a world where Luke Wilson is the smartest man on earth. *shudder*


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:26 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Jeff said:
No, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean it's valid. If I believe the grass is purple and orange striped, I'm entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't make it valid.

But if everybody starts believing it, then it makes your opinion that it's green suddenly the invalid one.

The only reason thinking the grass is green isn't crazy is because everyone thinks that.

I too believe everyone has a voice, but I'm not inclined to let the stupid rule.

But you're assuming you can easily decide who is (or which ideas are)stupid and who isn't...or that it's anyone's place to do so.

Just remember, your opinions are stupid to someone.


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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:33 PM
Jeff's avatar

Yeah, I'm pretty sure people think the grass is green because it is. And stupid isn't that hard to spot. You do so frequently in your blog.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:43 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

I can only say what I think is stupid. And plenty of people probably think my ideas are stupid. (debate existing is good)

But if a majority of people disagree, then I guess I lose - even if I'm right. (majority rules is good)

It's never a person of influence's place to decide that the majority is wrong and go against that will. One can debate it, but no one should have the power to overrule it. (that's the opposite of freedom for a whole)

Otherwise, you'd still have your Cherry Coke. ;)

(and the grass is green because we agreed that it is)

Last edited by Lord Gonchar, Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:44 PM
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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:46 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

Jeff said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure people think the grass is green because it is.

No, actually color is not an absolute truth. Just ask someone who is color blind what color the grass is. They aren't wrong, either. :)


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:51 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

And who's to say we all see the same colors in the first place. :)


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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:54 PM
mlnem4s's avatar

@LordGoncher, I was not really stating opinions; rather, asking rhetorical questions and repeating mantras that are so prevelant in this country...especially in very conservative parts of the States, in this case Texas, where obviously the blogger, if truth be told, is lamenting the need for "prohibition laws" against the evils of alcohol.

I don't have an issue with sharing my opinion that I completely disagree in the statement that what the "majority" wants is what the rule will be. It is my understanding that the Constitution, in part, protects minorities from such oppression, no? Is it not what has brought equality to African-Americans or individuals with disabilities or women or people of various religious faiths?

I agree with Jeff that even if people are entitled to an opinion they clearly can be invalid opinions. I see the ignorance and hypocrisy of people, especially religious people, daily living in the South. It isn't hard to find a "bible living" individual who believes slavery should be re-inacted, that homosexuals should be burned at the stake, that women should be submissive to men or that anyone who is non-Christian will not be saved and will burn in the eternal flames of hell.....clearly that is not only ignorance and an invalid opinion, but also not what represents living in "land of the free" is all about. There is a HUGE difference between having an opinion and what actual laws can and should say.

Last edited by mlnem4s, Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:55 PM
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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:57 PM
Carrie M.'s avatar

Lord Gonchar said:
And who's to say we all see the same colors in the first place. :)

Stop it, now that's just hot... :)


"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:25 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

mlnem4s said:
I don't have an issue with sharing my opinion that I completely disagree in the statement that what the "majority" wants is what the rule will be. It is my understanding that the Constitution, in part, protects minorities from such oppression, no?

And those things should only be there because the majority wants them. The government represents you.

It isn't hard to find a "bible living" individual who believes slavery should be re-inacted...

...clearly that is not only ignorance and an invalid opinion, but also not what represents living in "land of the free" is all about.

Perfect example.

A couple of hundred years ago those people weren't wrong - the majority agreed. Then the majority opinion started to change and there was a huge fight (that Civil War thing) and majority opinion changed. (as much so as war has a way of doing that)

If the Confederacy had won the war, your opinion would seem as ridiculous as theirs does now.

There is a HUGE difference between having an opinion and what actual laws can and should say.

I couldn't disagree more. (assuming that means a majority opinion of the people those laws are meant to govern)


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