Reality Problems
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I haven't tried that yet but that does sound disappointing.
Perhaps it adds a friction unit without adding a weight unit....either that or the calculations/equations are wrong.
~Tocci
-Ride_Op
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Ride_Op said:
"Well longer trains will run slower. Just think about how quickly one of those 20+ car family coasters accelerates. The train can't start getting up to speed as quickly as a short train like a Galaxi or a wild mouse, so the physics are accurate in that respect. "
Not entirely. I don't know the calculations off-hand, but when you add more cars, you do get more friction, but you get more weight (kinetic energy). That's why (example) Millennium Force goes faster when fully loaded w/ people than it does while cycling empty.
When speaking of the 20+car family rides, the reason why the train doesn't accelerate is because its "too long". Next time you see one, watch the train going up the lift hill. The first car hits the bottom of the first drop before the last car has cleared the lift hill. When a train is that long, it doesn't have the room to accelerate, like if it were shorter. Those rides would actually be pretty good if they had shorter trains! LOL
Where is Dave??? He'd beable to give you a more detailed response.
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-Ride_Op
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Ride_Op said:
2 MF trains (one empty, one full) crest the lift at the same speed. By the end of the ride the heavier train is going faster than the empty train due to the higher momentum. (momentum = mass x velocity. velocity for both trains at the apex is the same, but the mass for one is higher) But what would happen if one train was 9 cars, and the other train 20 cars (both trains empty). The variable isn't the weight, it's the legnth of the train. The longer the train the longer it takes to accelerate because the rear of the train is slowing the acceleration down because it is still being dragged over the tops of the hills. Wild Mouse coasters don't have this problem and those cars accelerate very quickly. But do you think that if you attached 7 wild mouse cars together that the resulting train would make it through the layout?
-Ride_Op
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Well, by increasing the length of the train, aren't you increasing the weight of the train by default? By your explanation, the longer train should go faster.
If we treat the train as a point mass, then that point is allowed to 'freefall' at a point closer to the ground in the case of the longer train. This is because, like Ride_Op said, the train is physically held to a specific velocity for a longer period of time. Potential energy is mass x 9.81 m/s^2 x height. In our case, the height has decreased, suggesting a smaller potential energy, but you've can't forget that the weight has increased. So, there's some place where the potential energy of the real MF train is equal to that of a longer train (I think!).
Truth is, there's a lot of factors that go into calculating this stuff, and I haven't played enough with No Limits to see if they're accurate. In fact, I wouldn't even be able to tell if they're entirely accurate, since, as far as I know, I have yet to design and build a working roller coaster.
Friction, drag, initial velocity, mass, viscosity, temperature, etc. all play a role in how a coaster performs. I'd venture to guess that it's almost entirely impossible to anticipate every possible situation that can arise with all of those variables (hence rollbacks) . . .
~ Michael ~
-Ride_Op
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Ride_Op said:
2 MF trains (one empty, one full) crest the lift at the same speed. By the end of the ride the heavier train is going faster than the empty train due to the higher momentum. (momentum = mass x velocity. velocity for both trains at the apex is the same, but the mass for one is higher) But what would happen if one train was 9 cars, and the other train 20 cars (both trains empty). The variable isn't the weight, it's the legnth of the train. The longer the train the longer it takes to accelerate because the rear of the train is slowing the acceleration down because it is still being dragged over the tops of the hills. Wild Mouse coasters don't have this problem and those cars accelerate very quickly. But do you think that if you attached 7 wild mouse cars together that the resulting train would make it through the layout?
Momentum is the wrong word. You're looking for inertia. And no, the 7-car wild mouse wouldn't make it through. The hairpin turns disallow a train from getting through the course.
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Ride_Op said:
However on a coaster you can not treat the train as a point mass. You must treat it as more or less 2 point masses connected, one on each side of the hill.
-Ride_Op
Of course, it's better to treat anything as something greater than a point mass. Taking what you've said a step further, wouldn't it be better still to treat each car as a point mass that is in tension with the cars surrounding it? Of course, that makes all of this ridiculously complicated, and it makes me thankful for computers.
I'll stick to non-gravity powered ride systems where ever I can, I think.
~ Michael ~
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