Random B&M Question

This random thought popped into my head last night. Has there ever been a B&M coaster torn down at all? Has there ever been a bad B&M coaster? (bad meaning rough, painful, worn down, horrible to ride) I'm thinking of all these defunct coasters that had short existences and am wondering if B&M coasters have ever met any of those fates...

According to RCDB only one has been relocated, going from Japan to SFNO [where it currently stands SBNO with the rest of the park].

To find a better match you have to go back to when Mr. B and Mr. M worked for Intamin: SFAW's Intamin's Batman The Escape is currently sitting in pieces at SFDL. And there are other Intamin coasters currently SBNO, in storage, or defunct that they may have designed but RCDB does not give that info.

As for bad B&M coasters, that's pretty subjective, but if you look at Mitch's steel coaster poll -

#154. Chang
#168. Mantis
#207. PCW's Vortex
#220. PGA's Vortex
#249. Iron Wolf

All standup's, too, and like I said, subjective. I actually realy enjoy, Mantis, and Iron Wolf. Chang I think is ok, and I haven't ridden the other 2.

YMMV!

I also, believe that "Flashback" at SIXFMM was designed by Claude and Butch while they were still with INTAMIN; and that was relocated...TWICE I heard!

Yes. Flashback was designed by Walter and Claude (Butch!?) when they were with Intamin and it has been relocated twice. It's currently semi-SBNO at SFMM.

I don't think either Claude or Walter worked for Intamin per se. A company called Gioviniola (spell) (used to make cement trucks) used to do all of Intamins fabrication work. Intamin eventually bought them out. They both worked for Gioviniola. When they eventually got involved with amusement rides, Walter (who got his engineering education in Allentown PA.) did/does all the structural designs (tracks - structures) Claude did/does all the mechanical (trians/lifts etc.). There very very first job for their "new" co. was making new "sleds" for the Intamin ride at Gurnee Ill. - Then a Marriott park. The last time I talked to Claude he was semi retired (3 years ago.) as he has no children to support the decision was easy.

Okay "worked for Intamin" may be a bad way to phrase it. Maybe "consulted for Intamin" would be more accurate?

"Worked with"..."worked for"...seems pedantic to me.

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POINTON3 said:
I also, believe that "Flashback" at SIXFMM was designed by Claude and Butch while they were still with INTAMIN; and that was relocated...TWICE I heard!

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Just look how awful it is. SFGAm used to have it and it was called Z-Force, but it is way gone (Thank-God)! Look how tiny it is next to Goliath!

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Michael Darling said:
Yes. Flashback was designed by Walter and Claude (Butch!?) when they were with Intamin and it has been relocated twice. It's currently semi-SBNO at SFMM.

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I wouldn't say "semi"

They used to run it during the waterpark's off-season, but it has been SBNO since 2003 according to rcdb. I was there in 2003 and was very disapointed (i traveled from cleveland) because not only was Flashback not running, neither was X.

Mantis, I can't stand Mantis. That ride reminds me of a cross between Serial Thriller and Texas Twister from GL.

I was just trying to give a little history lesson, that's all. I do have an ostentatious concern for formal rules.

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BigJim4Life said:
Has there ever been a bad B&M coaster? (bad meaning rough, painful, worn down, horrible to ride)

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You just decribed PGA's Vortex to a T.

Z-Force/Flashback was a brainchild of Intamin/Giovanola. They had the idea of a coaster going through various "floors" while dropping to the lower level in the smallest possible curve. It was thought to give the sensation of a fighter plane manouver.

Layout and dynamics were done by Stengel and his young colleague Harald Wanner (Project No: 8421), who was/is a specialist for spline functions.

It was the first coaster ever to feature a combination of the Heartline and spline functions as the basic design feature.

The lateral forces on Z-Force did not exceed 0,75g in its original incarnation.

Stengel comments in his Biography that the executives of Six Flags were determined that the ride was wrongly built because they could not comprehend that the odd bended track (swaying to the opposite direction before a curve) was a design feature (heartline-paradoxon) that was essential to keep the laterals to a minimal.

Alledgedly Six Flags engineers were altering the ride, just to call Stengel a few months later, asking him for the original design plans. It seems that this ride was butchered by its owners and was never fully restored.

So, Flashback was definately NOT designed by Walter and Claude (Butch)!

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matt. said:
As for bad B&M coasters, that's pretty subjective, but if you look at Mitch's steel coaster poll -

#154. Chang
#168. Mantis
#207. PCW's Vortex
#220. PGA's Vortex
#249. Iron Wolf

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Hmmm, that does look EERILY similar to my personal list of *subpar* Beemers...except I call Carowinds PCar... ;)

Oh, and Great White is *on my list* too, how could a Batman get SOOOO rough?

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rollergator said:

Oh, and Great White is *on my list* too, how could a Batman get SOOOO rough?

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What are you talking about? I rode both Great White and SFOT's Batman last week and noticed no difference!

Matt

In all fairness, I was at SWT for an event a couple years' back ('04 now that I look back), there's a STRONG likelihood it's been fixed/worked on since then. LOVED all the parks in TX (save for Kiddie Park of San Antonio, where we were *denied*, LOL). Most all the rides were GREAT too, the launched rides like GL and Polty had more PUNCH, etc.

http://www.pbase.com/rollergator/txok_parks

But I remember thinking after a few laps on Great White..."fantastic theming, what's with all the rattling". Still miles above an SLC, but noticeable, esp. for a B&M. I attributed the rattling to the constant misting, perhaps forming more rust on the rails than might occur elsewhere.

*** Edited 6/6/2006 8:44:17 PM UTC by rollergator***

I wasn't aware that Great White was that themed, is there anywhere I can see some pictures of whats involved, or a description at least? Or are we just talking the paint job on the train?

The paint and the misters are the themeing.

I went on this ride every weekend when I had season passes when I lived in San Anotnio.

i realize B&M is supposed to be butter smooth, but some roughness is nothing to complain about. And headbanging isnt the rides fault, its b/c the rider wont keep his or her head back. These complaints are what ruined Steel Phantom. Stupid people who wont sit back with their head back who complain of vibrations. Know what Steel Phantoms problem was? Its riders were stupud and not tough. They think a coaster ride should be like riding in a Benz. *** Edited 6/6/2006 11:30:40 PM UTC by TBoltKWer***