Raging Wolf Bobs derailment today

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GregLeg said:

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Charles Nungester said:
If you ask me, CF has cut the budget on some dept's at some parks to dangerous and annoying levels.

I have no proof of any wrong doing and am not accusing them of anything

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Sorry, Chuck, but what I'm calling you out on is the above. First you're saying you think they've cut to dangerous levels, then you say you're not accusing them of anything. That's PRECISELY what you're doing -- charging them with a fault or offense.

You MAY be right, but I think it's much too early at this point to make such speculations.

*** Edited 6/18/2007 3:32:14 AM UTC by GregLeg***

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You, Jeff or anyone else has every right to dissagree and perhaps your right. Im jumping to conclusions. Im willing to wait for a finding by the ODOA and probably a independent firm. I still think track just doesn't fail if it's inspected properly. Thats my opinion but might not be the cause.

Chuck

That is if ODOA even gets called. ODOA only needs to be called if an injury occured, since no one was injured this is just a mechanical breakdown, and it does not need to be reported.

If that is the orginization I'm thinking of, I belive they only need to be called if someone is injured to the point of needing something more than first aid. That being said, although they didn't need to report the Magnum incident, they did anyway. *** Edited 6/19/2007 6:30:29 AM UTC by Jason Hammond***

Kinda think it might be a good "CYA move" by Cedar Fair to report these kinds of incidents. Esp. consdering that CF owns three parks in Ohio, they want to keep a good relationship with the State...just in case.

My *thinking* here (going out on another limb, per my custom) is that SHOULD we have a repeat performance in the future, that having ODOA clearance would be helpful for CF *just in case* of possible litigation.

Reporting the incident, getting State reinspection, that sort of thing...Cedar Fair might do that, they are certainly permitted to do that and the State isn't going to complain. But the legal requirements are different, and what's important about the legal requirements is that if there is an accident...that is, an incident in which a patron is killed or admitted to a hospital...then the ride is automatically shut down until it is re-approved by the State. An incident which does not meet the legal requirement for an "accident" would not trigger the automatic shutdown and the *requirement* for state reinspection. That doesn't prevent the park from reporting the incident to the State, and it does not prevent the State from coming in and conducting a mid-season inspection. But unless the State inspector comes in and finds that the ride is unsafe, there is no shutdown order, so as soon as the park gets it fixed and is itself satisfied with its condition, the ride can operate again.

At least that's how I read it. IANAL and I have not read the administrative code; this is just what the base law says.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

^ Sounds about right to me.

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RideMan said:
Reporting the incident, getting State reinspection, that sort of thing...Cedar Fair might do that, they are certainly permitted to do that and the State isn't going to complain. But the legal requirements are different, and what's important about the legal requirements is that if there is an accident...that is, an incident in which a patron is killed or admitted to a hospital...then the ride is automatically shut down until it is re-approved by the State. An incident which does not meet the legal requirement for an "accident" would not trigger the automatic shutdown and the *requirement* for state reinspection. That doesn't prevent the park from reporting the incident to the State, and it does not prevent the State from coming in and conducting a mid-season inspection. But unless the State inspector comes in and finds that the ride is unsafe, there is no shutdown order, so as soon as the park gets it fixed and is itself satisfied with its condition, the ride can operate again.

At least that's how I read it. IANAL and I have not read the administrative code; this is just what the base law says.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Dave, doesn't a ride have to pass a complete inspection to get licensed at the beginning of each year and also if the ride is closed for any extended period of time? I know when KI shut down SOB opening year, they had to have it re approved after it's three week closure. Nobody was hurt in that inccident either but they closed it and did extensive work before reopening it.

I'm sure this post is a bit overdue, but I've been traveling, so excuse me.

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Mamoosh said:
I'm surprised I have not seen this news posted anywhere but this morning there was an incident on Raging Wolf Bobs. Although there were no injuries there was serious damage to both train and track and apparently the ride will be closed for the remainder of the season.

FYI this has been confirmed by two independent sounces, see http://tinyurl.com/2te8tx. The Coaster EXT event was at the park today so I'm sure word [and pics] of this will be out soon.

*** Edited 6/17/2007 5:24:47 AM UTC by Mamoosh***

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Well, I was on the train (but not the car) that derailed, and I understand what exactly happened. I can answer anyone's questions if you like.

What happened: The coaster was going fine through the track until it hit the small hill before the spot it stopped at (not the curve). at that point, the back car derailed and went down the track at a 45 degree angle, slicing through some of the tie beams between the rails, and dealing some structural damage to the more important beams below the rails. The tie beams were broken in the direction of the normal operating motion of the track, proving this. Snapping through those ultimately slowed the train down, after which it went reverse down the track to where it stopped.

Pluses for Geauga Lake: The ride staff reacted quickly. within 3 minutes of the incident, the ride staff cleared the station, checked on our train, and cleared the area of onlookers, in case of structural damage. Next came the maintainance, who let the people in the back and front trains out, chained the car to the track, then systematically escorted the rest of us off, where we were met by First Aid, although nobody except the person in the back seat really needed it.

As for injuries, nothing serious, but the girl in the back left seat had a minor friction burn on her leg, which she recovered from before even leaving the park.

This is not speculation, this is first hand experience, and first hand observation. If anyone has any questions I'm willing to answer them.

Were you actually on the train?

^On the previous post, Rijor explained he was on the train, but not in the derailed car.... ;)

Thanks Rijor, that pretty much confirms the "more educated speculation". Still seems to me that something went awry on the (back of the) train itself, since if the trackwork had been a problem then *theoretically* the FRONT of the train would have had a problem...

Obviously I'm speculating....and I feel freer to do so in light of the fact that there were no serious injuries...time will tell.

Not necessarily, Gator. Remember, wood coasters are dynamic structures. My theory, as one who was not there and who has not seen the condition of the derailed car, is that for BOTH of the upstops to fail would be highly unlikely. At the trouble spot, the train is coming out of a right-hand helix, and is still superelevated; in fact the top of the hill is the bit of track that pulls the left side down for the straight track before twisting again for the high curve. My guess is that a combination of the loading on the car and the applied force as the car came out of the curve was enough to pull the back car over. It was probably the outward force applied by the rest of the train that could have caused the outer rail to spread far enough to allow the upstops to come out on the one side.

I'm not saying that's how it happened, but that is one way that it could have happened.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

^OK, I see where you're going with that logic. Makes sense (but I guess I am caught up in the notion that *new* trackwork shouldn't have problems with gauging).

I wasn't thinking that *both upstops* failed, I was thinking more along the lines of axle failure (probably just becuase it's a hot topic).

I am thinking along the same lines as Dave...nothing failed on the train. The track just gave out. My guess is that a connection (or several) gave out from fatigue, allowing the rail to slide out. Heck, it could have been a single piece of wood that rotted out or split or something like that.

OK...now I guess I'm following along. The track gauge might have been OK, but the ties that (theoretically) keep the track properly gauged might have failed, allowing the track to separate as the front part of the train went pushing against the side rails (as is the nature of the Bobs design). Then the back car hits that track, the gauging is considerably out of alignment, and the car slips out of the trackwork...

That's probably more believable than anything - now that it's been explained to me on a kindergarten level... ;)