Quick Queue Unlimited at BGW

Friday, February 19, 2010 8:39 PM
ridemcoaster's avatar

So Im curious.. Picture people who were there for an ERT are already in line for a premiere ride before official park opening and then the "general public" high tails it to that ride at rope drop only to see a line of people who were already there due to said ERT, should they feel their experience be depreciated because of that?

I mean, you are there ahead in line due to paying extra (membership) thus having the ability to get to a ride sooner than someone who hasnt paid that extra premium.

Just a thought...

*just citing an example that you yourself LK used a premium benefit yourself to get "ahead of the line"*

Last edited by ridemcoaster, Friday, February 19, 2010 8:43 PM
Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:55 PM

I think a park owner would be more successful closing rides if they came up with clever reasons that seemed to be out of their control.

For this to work, several people would have to be in on it. None of them---not one---could ever blab the secret to anyone else, or quickly everyone would know.

The chances of that seem low vs. the chances that maybe, things just sometimes break.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:35 PM
LostKause's avatar

There wouldn't have to be several people in on it. Sharpio himself could easily be the only one in on it. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I am simply stating that Lo-Q creates a conflict of interest.

If closing rides or slowing operations makes more money for both the park and lo-Q, a good reason is present to find way to do it. It doesn't have to be a huge conspiracy. It could be as simple as someone in upper management making a decision to close a ride for some minor maintenance issue, when it doesn't really need to be closed, or cutting staff and offer whatever reason that they can come up with.

Less overall occupancy on rides, shops, and food, creates the illusion that the park is busier that it really is, because people can do less in the time that they have. This makes the line at the Lo-Q booth longer, which means more profits for both the park and Lo-Q. Because of Lo-Q, there is plenty of incentive to run the park poorly.

Lo-Q offers a solution for a problem that they make worse with the offered solution. Therefore, the solution that they offer is more appealing then it would have been if they weren't there in the first place.

Last edited by LostKause, Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:36 PM
Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:42 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Someone else want to explain why that makes no sense? He just keeps repeating it no matter how many times I point out the flaws in that logic.


Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:46 PM
LostKause's avatar

In reply to Ridemcoaster's above post, the early ERT situation could easily not be a problem for regular park guests by limiting how many people use it. I was at Kings Island the second week of operations last year, and they were letting season passholders pass the gate to ride Diamondback an hour before everyone else. I had to wait with everyone else, and my cousin and I ran to Diamondback when the rope dropped. We were some of the first non-season passholders there, and we had less than a 2 train wait.

It depends on how many people are offered the ERT in the first place, as to how many people are already in line before the GP get there.

ERT would have no effect if it was after park hours.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:51 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

LostKause said:
It depends on how many people are offered the ERT in the first place, as to how many people are already in line before the GP get there.

Just like VQ, FOL or any line management system.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:58 PM
LostKause's avatar

That's why I condone making FotL systems much more expensive, Gonch.

How would you try to sell more Quick Queue Unlimited passes, Gonch? By running the rides efficiently? By having all the rides and shops open and properly staffed? BGW just might begin to offer a worse experience than before once they see how profitable it can be, just like other parks.

Expensive and limited VIP tours is the best way to offer perks to higher paying guests, along with offering a small number of high priced ERT sessions. Limiting how many times one can cut in front of everyone else is a little bit worse than that, but tolerable, to a point.

Last edited by LostKause, Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:59 PM
Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:13 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

I'd let them sell themselves because I'm smart enough to know that purposing degradating the park experience in an attempt to raise profits in some way is not only counterintuitive to every business theory and completely illogical, but also hilariously misguided.

You also seem to work under the flawed notion that buying into an upgraded experience is necessary when nothing could be further from the truth. That fact alone (that I've gone to parks using these systems, not bought into it and waited no more than 20 or 25 minutes all day long) says that in my experience, you're way off base.

I still say your day isn't affected as much as you think. Only a small portion of guests are using the system and it's only available on a small portion of rides, attractions, shows and such.

Turst me, any given person's wait for the merry-go-round, for example, is not changed because of systems in place in the park.

I don't think figuring the impact is nearly as simple as you're trying to make it.

Last edited by Lord Gonchar, Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:14 PM
Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:22 PM
rollergator's avatar

edited to mention that I was replying to LK (Gonch snuck in between us, hehe)... :)

But any economist will tell you that the highest-possible profits are obtained by offering an infinite number of experiences that are perfectly tailored to each guest's wants....and their ability/willingness to pay the maximum price that can be charged for those experiences. Since that could become a logisitcal nightmare very quickly, parks are figuring out how to offer *some* additional ways of marketing a variety of "visit options" that do all differ from what was traditionally offered.

But then again, how many parks are out there that offer a truly traditional experience....ride tickets and a smaller gate fee I guess would have been the most common form of marketing a trolley park "back in the day". But times were changing even back then...and I tend to think they're changing even faster with every passing year. Am I one of those nostalgists that really values an appreciation for that kind of experience? You betcha! ;)

But profitability in business is the driving force in the evolution of the way we do business. So a "one-size-fits-all" mentality is almost certainly going to evolve into *something else*. The enhanced profitability is why the Mouse offers the most in terms of your visit option....and why the Mouse makes the most.

Last edited by rollergator, Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:23 PM
Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:37 PM

Sharpio himself could easily be the only one in on it.

How? Shapiro waves his magic wand and suddenly all the Batman clones go down chain-wide?

In order to purposefully close a ride in some situation other than "it's broke", you have to tell the seasonals operating the ride to stop operating it, or you have to tell your maintenance staff to make it look like its broken to the operators, or... If any one of those people spills the beans, the jig is up.

Dude, conspiracies are harder to pull off than popular culture would suggest.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:07 PM

Lost Kause: You have no problems because there was only a two train wait the week you went. How about if it was two hours? That typically happens at DHS for Toy Story Mania on morning EMH days. Maverick has at least 45 min wait most summer days at CP at opening as well. You cant be soft you either have to be for or against something, odds are all those Lo-Q people infront of you are typically only about a two train wait as well.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 10:19 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar

Question for LK:
Would it be better if the park just took an hour sometime during the normal operating day (first, middle, last) and made it only for "premium" customers?

As for closing rides down, I tried to go to SFoT twice this past weekend for their All Star Game celebration. Saturday the park was closed "for inclement weather" because we got major snow on Thursday and Friday. Sure, I'll buy it. (All the rides were running but since it was the first day of the season, maybe they didn't get their testing in because of the snow). Monday, I arrived at 2:00pm to be told the park was closed for inclement weather at 1:30pm. It was about 50 degrees out and I've definitely been to Holiday in the park when it was colder and generally crappier weather. People had been on the rides Monday morning, so it wasn't an issue of the park not being ready. What really happened? Not enough people came to make the park profitable - I would guess there were 200 cars in the lot. As long as the park can pretend it was for "inclement weather" and not "not profitable" they can turn people away or kick people out without much backlash. If they started kicking people out because it was "not profitable" there would probably be a riot. (Just as a side note, on the few days I have been kicked out for "non-profitability" I've gotten free tickets to come back. Great unless you have a season pass or you didn't actually make it through the gates).

Do I think this means the parks shut down rides on purpose? Not in the slightest.

Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:04 PM
LostKause's avatar

That's a good question, Andy. Closing the park an hour earlier than normal to provide ERT or opening it an hour later and providing the hour prior for ERT wouldn't seem as invasive, because most people wouldn't figure out that they lost that hour. Of course I'd be against it if I knew I was losing an hour, but I'd probably be the person paying the extra fee to be able to enjoy the ERT.

It's all about how things appear.

About your local Six Flags park situation, it's pretty bad business to advertise that you are going to be open, only to close down a few hours after opening. If the weather was really to blame, then it would be a pretty good reason. If it was because it was "not profitable" to open that day, they should stay open for those who already made the trip, because they already advertised that they would be open (They could have even broke a law there somewhere if it wasn't weather related).

I don't know how far you live from the park, but a free ticket for your next visit doesn't pay for ones gas to and from the park, any wasted time, or any other inconvieancesone may have incurred. You could have done something else that day. You should be upset about that.

And from my understanding of what you may be accusing the park of doing, it would be my opinion that there is a chance that they did close not only a few rides on purpose, but the entire park...for profitabilitys sake.

Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:07 AM
Vater's avatar

All parks conspire against their guests in every way imaginable. I thought this was common knowledge.

Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:13 AM
ridemcoaster's avatar

I think, LK, the issue is you immediately assume a large volume of people buy these things.. With respect to BGW, the unlimited is almost the same price as a day pass.. Do you really think that many people are buying it to "hop in front" of others?

Without stating actual #s, The amount of people who bought the unlimited last year couldnt fill the park for 1 day. Spread those purchases over a season, its not enough to impact the queues one iota.

BTW, the park operates in the millions for a season..


Oh and I guess you wont be at Coaster Mania, or Coaster Con or whatever, because they generate a lot of people, have morning ERTs, and typically put people in line for the premiere rides before park opening. Clearly you are against such things and wouldnt be participatory to such shenanigans ;)

Last edited by ridemcoaster, Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:16 AM
Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:02 AM
LostKause's avatar

Lol...I really don't like to go to enthusiast events because they are sometimes too crowded, and the wait times for whatever featured coaster is usually too long for me to justify the extra cost. I've actually only been to one event, PPP, only once. I worked a few at Cedar Point.

I prefer to just go to a park during the slow season with a friend or two.

Thanks for the info, Ridemcoaster. It true that the more expensive it is, the less people are using it, and the less it effect others. It would be the end to my argument if every park, including BGW, released the numbers of how many people use each tier of their line cutting system. I wish we knew that info.

Sunday, February 21, 2010 3:57 PM
ridemcoaster's avatar

Wouldnt hold your breath on that one.

As much as I would love to end this argument you wont get those #s from me :)

Monday, February 22, 2010 5:01 PM
Vater's avatar

If those numbers were released, I'd place some serious high-dollar bets that the argument wouldn't end.

Monday, February 22, 2010 5:08 PM
Mamoosh's avatar

LostKause said: Lol...I really don't like to go to enthusiast events because they are sometimes too crowded, and the wait times for whatever featured coaster is usually too long for me to justify the extra cost.

This hasn't been a problem at HoliWood Nights. Furthermore, with it being a two-night event the lines are even smaller the second night as many people are still too tired from the first. There were 20 to 30 minute intervals on both nights when I never got out of the Voyage train.

Monday, February 22, 2010 5:48 PM
LostKause's avatar

Well, I'm guessing that not all enthusiasts events are the same. I'm still thinking about going to HWN.


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