Ok, before you get a little defensive, I'm just trying to lighten the air a bit.
As Jeff mentioned, $ for $ AMD's are faster than the Intel equivalent and will give you much better value. Also, if you're already spending in the ballpark of $500 (counting shipping) you might be better off just driving up to Best Buy and getting a new Computer for about $600 (this one is $549 and this one is $649.). Both of those come with 512MB of ram expandable to 2GB, DVD+-RW/CD-RW combo, and some other sweet specs for only $549/$649! (80mb HD on the one, 200MB on the other.. and additional 512MB would be $85 off the memory site mentioned above..I just checked) Compaq's are fairly reliable (my last was a 4-year-old AMD Athlon 900MHz). Oh yeah, did I mention that both of those systems have a $50 rebate? So it's like you're only spending $499/$599 after you get the rebate.
..and no, I don't work for Best Buy :-P (although I did way back when I was 16 ;) )
EDIT: P.S. - both of those systems use integrated video, but it IS 128MB shared. Also, you could very easily take your vid card from your current system, plug it into this system, and (if you have a second monitor) use the computer dual-screen.
*** Edited 1/25/2005 4:37:54 AM UTC by dannerman***
Now Dannerman, thanks for all the help, those systems look great...I will consider something like that. The AMD 3200+...what excactly is the processor speed?
when AMD lists their processors as 3200+, 4000+, etc. it is referring to the equivalent Pentium processor speed. AMD processors run at lower speeds (the 3200 runs at, if I remember correctly, 2200mhz) but they are more streamlined and efficient, thus reaching higher "benchmarks" versus a comparable Intel.
--George H
Note: if you need RAM a gig of good DDR400/PC3200 will run you another 140 or so
All that being said, you *smartest* upgrade path, based on what you said above, is simply to replace your Ati 9200 with the best vid card you can afford (the above mentioned nVidia 6800 is no slouch) in you current computer and see if that satifies you. If after updating the vid card you *still* feel you are being held back, *then* go for an Athlon 64 based system.
But remember, it's all up to you. =]
jeremy
zacharyt.shutterfly.com
PlaceHolder for Castor & Pollux
"good with computers" and "never opened the case" do not mix. I know this makes me sound old, but kids today think that just because they're good with using a computer that it qualifies them for tech of the year. Heck, even if I buy a prebuilt (for budget concerns..) I still open the case a peek around a bit, and usually hook up the old hard drive to make transferring all my old data faster.
Jeff is right - prior to the Pentiums, all you had to do was buy a slightly faster processor (for example, a 33MHz 80486DX/2 to make your computer faster than a 25MHz 80486DX.. or a 16MHz 80386/DX to upgrade an 8MHz 80386/SX). You didn't have to worry about motherboards, since they were all standard, with the exception only of the mass-produced prebuilt PCs. All you had to do was pull up the lever, take the old CPU out (they didn't have the massive heat syncs or fans in those days), pop the new one in, set the jumpers correctly for the clock speed, and you're all set. Now there's so many different chipsets, etc. that you're almost playing russian roulette if you try buying them separately.
But yeah.. I don't understand how Jeff supposedly "overreacted" or "misunderstood" anything? He seemed a little annoyed at trying to mix the 2 phrases I mentioned above (as was I at first), but not inappropriately so.
EDIT: fixed the 80386 speeds. I can't believe I forgot that - my first computer's processor was an 8MHz 80386/SX. *** Edited 1/26/2005 9:44:24 PM UTC by dannerman***
A CPU with the exact same pinout as the one you bought six months ago (i.e. plugs in the same socket) may have a different core (or the insides are significantly different). If your motherboard isn't designed to handle it--or perhaps it is, but your BIOS isn't the correct revision--you've just bought a doorstop.
-'Playa
*** Edited 1/26/2005 10:07:31 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
How much technical experience do you have?
Stop putting words in my mouth to inflate your know-more-than-anyone ego.
EDIT: Before you quote the line about me saying chipsets, I also said 'etc.' I was merely stating that there are a lot of variations out there. And chipsets do matter, they're just not the be-all-end-all. Try using an AMD processor with an Intel chipset (that is, if you can find a mobo with a socket/slot that'll fit) *** Edited 1/26/2005 10:19:24 PM UTC by dannerman***
The 486s were the first with internal cache...and from there, we've evolved from onboard L1 and L2 to onboard memory controllers with the latest AMDs. The variations? Fewer and farther between on the motherboard level. The big changes are within the CPU itself.
How much technical experience do I have? Funny, when Computer Shopper was the size of a phone book and holding COMDEX afterparties at the Ritz-Carlton Atlanta I never saw you there.
-'Playa
*** Edited 1/26/2005 10:48:11 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Using varied chips to create the same output from the same inputs is hardly considered 'varied'. It's that whole "black box" concept in programming. If you have 2 functions that give the same output for the same input in the same amount of time consistently, it doesn't matter what's under the hood - they're not varied. If you had one motherboard with a slot for a 386, you could run all 386 processors. Same for 486. That's not true any more - even if you stick with the same manufacturer. An Athlon is not necessarily an Athlon, nor a Sempron a Sempron, nor a Celeron a Celeron. Oh! There's one you forgot! The wonderful celeron. In the beginning, they were just Pentiums with *no* onboard cache (Intel thought they'd save money). Did they teach that in your computer history theory class?
You think you're so smart? In the 80386SX and 80386DX chips I mentioned above, what was the main difference? (other than clock speed) And further, why were they named SX and DX?
Oh! Here's an EASY one: The motorola 68000 processor (the original.. not later production variations using better technology) that was used in the original Apple Computers.. Why was it called the 'Motorola 68000'?
And here's some more easy gems:
How many 30-pin SIMs did you need for one memory bank on a 486 processor AND WHY?
*shrugs* I might as well give you the answers. You're probably going to need to search the internet to *PROVE* you know *EVERYTHING*
the difference between the DX and the SX chips were that the SX did not have a math co-processor on the chip. (There was a matching part that was a sold-separately math co-processor, the number of which escapes me at the moment since I've only ever seen one in my life, but I think it was something cheesy like '80387') the S in SX stood for 'Standard' (most programs didn't require a math co-processor at that time) and the D in DX stood for 'Deluxe'.
The Motorola 68000 was named such because the original processor used exactly 68,000 transistors.
on a 486 system, you had to install 30-pin SIMMs in sets of 4 identical modules. Why? Because 30-pin SIMMs were 8-bit, but the 486 processor was 32 bit. So, in order to allow for the 32 bits, you needed 4 banks to get the same effective 32 bits.
Any more meaningless buzzwords you want to hit me with, or are you just gonna roll up the computer shopper and try hitting me with that instead? Save your toss, I'm done arguing with trolls.
Now, if you guys are gonna argue about pointless things like "How many 30-pin SIMs did you need for one memory bank on a 486 processor AND WHY?" At least explain what the hell a 30-pin SIM is. I'll be the first out of the masses to say I don't know what the hell you people are talking about, not that I should know.
Oh and you both should be have like adults and respect eachother instead of bragging about the size of your computer ;) or how much you know about the Motorola 68000, because even though all that is lovely, the whole purpose of this place is to be a community and help others with their problems, instead of making your own by bit**ing at eachother.
The end of my Rant.
Kyle Says: Diamondback was a lot of fun! Made his first time at Kings Island worth it all!
Frankly, they weren't. But a person trying to upgrade a system of today might find it helpful.
But anyway...
When Northgate Computers in Minnesota had only 10 people manning the phones, I was one of them. I hired in a few months before before their 286 systems were voted Computer Shopper's Best Buy and 386 systems won a then-coveted PC Magazine's editors choice.
Buuut I wasn't so happy as a sales rep and struck out with a few folks in Michigan where I chose the components, tweaked the parts and called the marketing shots.
While you were counting SIMM slots, I was tweaking extended BIOS settings, checking memory timings, writing ad copy and moving boxes. While you were reading magazines, I was chatting with the editorial flacks and publishers.
I wasn't making it a pissing match. But if you must know, I was an actual part of that history.
Wanna take that personally? Go right ahead.
-'Playa
PS to Kyle - 30-pin SIMMS have nothing to do with today's topic. That's technology about as old as you. What they called a 'big' hard drive in those days can be purchased as a postage stamp-sized flash memory for $15 at Wal-Mart.
But back to this century: I was saying you can have a 'Socket A' motherboard, buy a chip that plugs right in the socket and still not have anything that works. OR you can have a 'Socket A' motherboard that supposedly works with the chip you bought and still have nothing if the motherboard or BIOS was revised since you purchased it. AMD seems to be the worst offender with at least 5 different socket A cores...but the Pentium 4 might be close. For $60-120 extra, who has to care about it?
*** Edited 1/27/2005 1:55:33 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
I didn't try to tell him I'm smarter than him. I just responded to something he said in shorthand cuz I figured he knew what I was saying...and it's pretty apparent he didn't.
Frankly, I could very easily point and laugh at him for a number of errors in his tirade...but I'll hold off on that for now. Lest he chooses to further prove the Theory of Nobody or a gigglefit hits me first...
-'Playa
*** Edited 1/27/2005 3:56:01 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
I'm your host Cap'n Obvious and welcome to this week's episode of Know Your Boat Anchors!
As always, it's sponsored by Lenny Knuckles' Pawn Shop...who reminds you: Walk in with any system mentioned on this show and we'll Double-Back-Crossover-360-(bleep)slap yo' arse into the middle of next week!
This week's contestants are Mort Grimley from Footheel, PA...
Mort: Live long and prosper.
CO: Uh, yeah, good luck with that Mort. Then there's major star of stage and screen, Pootie Tang...
Tang: Wa-da-tah!
CO: And a goldfish!
Fish: *Swims around in bowl*
CO: Our first question...True or false?
the difference between the 80386DX and the 80386SX chips was that the SX did not have a math co-processor on the chip.
*Ding!* Looks like Mort will take this one!
Mort: *Snorrrrt Snoort* You're kidding, right? NONE of the 386 chips had math coprocessors! In fact...
CO: Okayyyyyy, that's enough for now! 5 points! Next question:
Did the 386SX and DX even fit in the same friggin' socket?
*Ding!* Ohhhhh, and Pootie is the quickest on the draw!
Pootie: I gots to say the NAY-no, my brotha!
CO: Correctamundo! The 386SX actually was designed to fit the 286 socket! Reverse engineering...Imagine that!
So Pootie and Mort are tied with one apiece! It's anybody's game! But now it's time for the lightning round.
Audience on cue: Ooooooooooooooooooo.
CO: This one's a toughie:
How would you respond to anyone who thinks the terms page-interleaved RAM, external set-associative caches, write-thru or write-back are buzzwords?
*Ding!" The goldfish? How'd he hit the buzzer? *crickets chirp*
CO: Well, never mind that. What's your answer?
Fish: *long blank stare*
CO: Oh, he NAILS it! Every one of those motherboard-based acceleration techniques were rendered obselete with the stunning, blazingly fast 66 Mhz 486! What a comeback! And now your grand prize...Don Pardo?
Don: Thaaaaaaaaaaaat's right, Cap! He wins a years' obsessive attention from TeknoSkorpion! Largely unwanted sidekick to the stars, he'll shadow your posts, try to message you on IM, repeatedly bring up jokes old enough for preschool and make untold references to things that would get him tossed headlong from church! TeknoSkorpion..his name might be funny, but then he opens his mouth and ruins it!
Pootie: You a baddy daddy lamatai teddy chai!
*goldfish slits own fin, floats to top of bowl*
(Note to the thin-skinned and whiny: I loves me some of everybody)
-CO
*** Edited 1/27/2005 5:21:01 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
TeknoScorpion said:
This will be the last response you get from me, Period.
Nah. It's just too easy.
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
TeknoScorpion said:
Now, feel free to rag on me as much as you want. I'll be the man and let you speak out of your rear end all you want. *** Edited 1/27/2005 5:42:00 AM UTC by TeknoScorpion*** *** Edited 1/27/2005 6:10:57 AM UTC by TeknoScorpion***
Neither did I. Whoopsie!
Now run along while I 'talk out my ass'...or are you just staring at it while I talk?
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
*** Edited 1/27/2005 6:40:03 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
Go away. Good bye and good riddance.
-CO
*** Edited 1/27/2005 7:21:19 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
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