Sunday, November 25, 2001 10:55 AM
I'm sure many of you know that B&M designed the trains for this coaster.  I was wondering if they were as comfortable as their steel coaster trains.
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Coasters are like a fine wine, they get better with age.
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Sunday, November 25, 2001 11:22 AM
Nope their terrible.
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YA DID!!!
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Sunday, November 25, 2001 12:57 PM
The trains themselves are roomy, comfortable and have only lapbars.  The ride that they deliver is horrible, rough and painful.  I really wish SFMM would shell out for some PTC's.  Maybe the big boys need to take a lesson from the smaller parks (Holiday World).
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"X" marks the spot in 2001!
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Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:21 PM
I agree, the trains are roomiest around and very comfortable, although not the most attractive.  I personally wouldn't blame the trains for the horrible ride, its the coaster itself. 


Although they are B&M's first and only (known) attempt at wooden trains, we are all well aware of the exacting precision and engineering that go into B&M's other products.  I'd give the wood trains the benfit of the doubt. I don't think it's a stretch to say that PTCs, or even Millennium Flyers could not make Psyclone any better than it is. 

*** This post was edited by The Anti-Rumor on 11/25/2001. ***

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Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:39 PM
Those B&M trains track better than PTC's or Millenium Flyers...the problem is they are too heavy!
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Sunday, November 25, 2001 4:15 PM
 
Too heavy?  This seems to be the popular generally accepted "truth" as to why Psyclone is a poor ride.  The idea that the B&M trains are too heavy and tear the track and structure apart. 

Just because every one says the trains are too heavy and tearing apart the ride doesn’t make it so.  I have never seen any proof of this (of course, it may be out there). Who can honestly save they have seen evidence without quoting your roommate's uncle's neighbor or the Lemon Quench guy?  I haven't seen any engineering reports or talked to any SFMM carpenters, or know anyone who has for that matter, who can verify that this is really a problem.

I would suspect that if the trains were really too heavy, and continuously caused excessive damage to Psyclone (beyond any typical wooden coaster) that the park would have replaced the trains years ago.  Why pay for extra repairs year after year when a one-time investment of new trains would save money over the long run? 

There are many generally accepted "facts" that seem to circulate the community that have absolutely no evidence to back them up, and this seems to be one of them.  There are far too many wannabe engineers, marketers, and financial analysts here at the buzz and around the community that are happy to pass of and insist whatever information they have is fact.  I’m quite sure I don’t need to present any examples.

 

As I said, of course it is possible that the trains are too heavy, and they are causing excessive wear on Psyclone.  All I ask for is proof.  All it is now is a long-lived rumor.

 

*** This post was edited by The Anti-Rumor on 11/25/2001. ***

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Sunday, November 25, 2001 4:33 PM
Well one could argue that there's no *dis*proving the rumor either. Actually, the B&M trains are just over-built and terrible, period. Whether it is Psyclone or Collosus. It doesn't take a genious to tell that they track horribly and provide a very rough ride. Is that psyclone's only problem? Of course not, It's *never* been a top ten or even twenty-type coaster.

There are problems with Psyclone's structure that happened during the big LA quake, and the ride has been poorly maintained by SF. The trains weren't always too heavy for the ride, but in Psyclone's current state, they ARE. You can believe that or not, because all I can offer is the word of someone who has worked there and was privy to certain information......*me*.

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"I'm useless, but not for long, the future is comin' on"
X......IS.....COMING!

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Sunday, November 25, 2001 6:56 PM
If the B&M trains werent so heavy, they would spend the entire year on Colossus running backwards...

And if you look carefully at the ride, it is obvious there is some major wear and tear on the ride as a result of the trains...

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Sunday, November 25, 2001 9:59 PM
 No disproving the rumor?  Please, be reasonable.  The whole notion of it being a rumor demands that it’s proven, not the inverse.  Like our legal system, one must be proven guilty, not prove themselves innocent.

 No it doesn’t take a genius to tell you that ON Psyclone or Colossus backwards the B&M trains appear to track poorly and provide a rough ride.  I’d also say that in my opinion the B&M’s backwards on Colossus are no worse than the standard operating Morgan’s.   But the again, we know that SFMM’s woodies are poorly maintained.  A poorly maintained coaster would cause the best trains to track poorly and provide a rough ride.  We know all of B&M’s other products are among the best in the industry.  Therefore, I’d give the  B&M trains the benefit of the doubt and blame the poor ride on the wood and not the rolling stock.  Too bad we’ll never be able to put the B&M’s on a brand new CCI to see how they would perform on properly maintained/new wood, I’d bet they would be great.
 Finally I’d like to reiterate my point, if the B&M trains are too heavy and cause overly excessive wear to the wood, why are they still there? 

PxPxPunk,
 Thanks for proving my point about people making ridiculous statements and presenting them as fact:


“If the B&M trains weren’t so heavy, they would spend the entire year on Colossus running backwards...”


Is that so?  Where did this information come from?  If this is true, let me ask you this:  If its ok to run the heavy B&M’s on Psyclone 11 months out of the year, what would be the difference if they ran them on Colossus the whole year? 

 After all the structure of Colossus must be much stronger, it was designed for duel train operation.  What am I missing?


“And if you look carefully at the ride, it is obvious there is some major wear and tear on the ride as a result of the trains...”

Uh, What causes wear and tear on any wooden roller coaster?  If anyone considered it excessive looking (entirely subjective) I would suggest it’s SFMM’s shoddy maintenance.

*** This post was edited by The Anti-Rumor on 11/26/2001. ***

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Sunday, November 25, 2001 10:19 PM
Anti Rumor, your arguing semantics. First you say that you agree the trains track badly, then you say you think they'd run great on a new CCI. Which is it? It's the "what came first" argument, the bad trains or bad maintanance? At this point does it really matter? The trains are bad *now*, and will not work on *any* coaster.

 

 Next, why do you think the trains are still there? Because the park doesn't want to spring for new ones, hello? No one said the coaster was dangerous and could kill someone, we're saying they are too heavy to provide a smooth and pain free ride,  regardless how they got that way.

At this point I really don't care whether you believe it or not, I know it to be a fact.  But it's actually not really even the point(even though people seem to focus on it). Psyclone has many problems now that will unfortunately keep it from ever being a good ride. The heavy *and* awkward B&M trains certainly do not help, but as I have often said before, nothing short of re-construction will. So let's drop it, it's a meaningless arguement.
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"I'm useless, but not for long, the future is comin' on"
X......IS.....COMING!

*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 11/26/2001. ***

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Monday, November 26, 2001 1:17 AM
Ok, I’m going to restate my point:

The B&M trains are perfectly fine, the only problems are that they are on a poorly maintained woodie and are possibly poorly maintained themselves.

 

I’m arguing semantics? The semantics of what? Please re-read my most, I said they track poorly on Psyclone and Colossus, both poorly maintained coasters. As I stated above, any train will track poorly on a poorly maintained coaster. I bet they would run great on a new CCI, or any well-maintained woodie for that matter, just they like did back in the early 1990’s when Psyclone was fresh. Psyclone was a good ride for the first few years after it was built. Perhaps you’re not old enough to remember it.

You ask which came first bad trains or bad maintenance? The trains aren’t bad and never were, it’s the bad maintenance that makes the trains seem bad. How can say with any credibility that the trains are bad now and will not work on any coaster? Given the proper maintenance, and a home on a properly maintained woodie they would be fine. Too bad this most likely will never happen.

As far as the park not willing to pay for new trains, well no doubt they are costly, but then again so is constant maintenance year after year to rehab a wooden coaster that supposedly undergoes excessive wear. At what point does it become cheaper to replace the trains as opposed to continuously R&R the coaster? I would suspect it would be cheaper in the long run to get new trains, unless they didn’t cause the terrible excessive wear that they supposedly inflict on Psyclone.

You yourself said that they the trains "weren’t always too heavy" for Pysclone. Not Until after the big earthquake (1994 I believe) and poor maintenance. You’re supporting my point right there.

Maybe you’re done "arguing" (some call it debate) but I’d ask just what your point is.

BTW: You right, no one said the coaster was dangerous and could kill someone.

Oh yea, when you say "We’re saying they…..got that way". Who is "we’re"? Seems to me you’re the only one making this point.

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Monday, November 26, 2001 5:40 AM
Actually my point is....we basically have the same point. I guess all I'm saying is that I have heard with my own ears from SFMM engineers that the trains for Psyclone are much too heavy for the ride, and were a bad match from the beginning. Ever heard that weird screeching noise that the ride makes? The trains of course will run better on a better designed wooden coaster, that's a no brainer. But will they provide a good, smooth ride? You say so, I don't. That's pretty much it.

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Work like you've just gotten paid, Love like you've never been hurt, and dance like no one's watching!

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Monday, November 26, 2001 12:13 PM
hmm...

I think they are comfortable =)

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"ok everyone go ahead and pull down on your shoulder restraint so you feel nice and stuck!"

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Monday, November 26, 2001 1:05 PM
The Psyclone IS a Dinn after all :)

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CP! Still the coaster capital of the world in 2002!
My fellow Americans; Let's Roll!
WoodenCoaster.com

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Monday, November 26, 2001 2:16 PM

bigkirby said:
The Psyclone IS a Dinn after all
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Exactly!  I'ts not like the coaster was all that great to begin with.


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"I'm useless, but not for long, the future is comin' on"
X......IS.....COMING!


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Monday, November 26, 2001 3:45 PM
There is a damn good reason that Psyclone has the worlds only B&M wooden trains.  Plain and simple they are too heavy!  I have also heard it straight from SFMM maintence people that they are too heavy, but believe what you will....

And yes, the ride itself is also crap!  They are in the process of retracking the ride with I-beam track (the first drop is already done), and youll notice the difference as compared to the rest of the ride...The I-beam track is better suited for the heavier trains (S:TE uses I beams as well since the cars are extremely heavy as well....)

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:14 PM
I think that Psyclone is a good ride.
At the least it has a far more interesting layout than Colossus.
the only time that I have been on it is right after a rehab, and I thought it was not too bad.
It is not nearly as painful as many here would make it out to be. In fact, its not that bad at all.
I'm sure many here have written it off, but maybe its worth another try. (I know I will just to see if I went on some kind of perfect day for this ride!)

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Knotts 2002...ready when you are!

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:03 PM
I used to think Psyclone was OKAY, until I went on the Texas Cyclone and found out what the layout should really be like. Then I realized Psyclone could have been so much more. The trains are pretty comfortable, but did anybody notice that the lapbars are rock hard and extremely uncomfortable? Not only that, but they go down as far as possible unless you hold it up...during the ride it just gets tighter and tighter...new trains would be a wonderful idea!
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Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:51 AM
I think Colossus and Psyclone would both make great firewood. They are both terrible wood coasters. Molasses, I mean, Colossus has three drops and the rest is boring. It has been gutted of so much ride quality through a slow chain lift at the top and re-profiling so that what is left is just rough and noisy boredom. Sad. They should also get ride of the Morgans and get some real trains, like PTC’s.

Psyclone is just like most of the other Cyclone clones (as well as the NY original!)---slow over the tops of hills and slow on the curves. Psyclone has the added problem of "hunting" (the train bangs back and forth) as it moves along, perhaps due to bad track gauging. They also should get rid of those awful B&M trains and get some PTC's, as well as re-track the whole ride with regular track, not I-beam style to accomodate the B&M's, which should be taken out. It should also have NO dead spots and run smoothly, but that could also require some re-profiling. Sigh.

Please compare Knott's Ghostrider with either of these lame SFMM woodies to see my point. Check out several of the other CCI and GCI woodies around the country, like at Silverwood, Holiday World, Michigan Adventure, SFStL, Visionland, etc. It doesn't take a genius to see the quality differences. When will Six Flags see the light? They seem to be on the cutting edge with steel, but with wood they are in the dark ages, except for the new Villain at SFWOA and Roar at SFMW.

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