Pretzel Loop Pressure

Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:46 AM

Greetings all,

I have a rather bizarre inquiry. Now maybe this is just me since I just turned ______ years old earlier this month, but I noticed something: Pretzel loops exert TREMENDOUS force on my body, unlike any other inversion Ive ever experienced. Its borderline uncomfortable and feels like someone is squeezing the breath out of me. Has anyone else had that sensation or is it just me ??

KTH

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:49 AM

It's a wonderful feeling, and I'm certain it's well within the human threshold.

I agree that it's tough to breathe for a brief moment, but it's intense, and I can't get enough of it. If only the rest of the ride was as good as that moment.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:37 AM

Manta's pretzel is wild! Nothing beats that pretzel in the backseat! Talk about crazy sensations. Airtime followed by the most intense forces ever. I did not think the SUF pretzel's were nearly as good.

Love me some Manta!

They do drain me quite a bit though... After only a few rides on Manta I was torn up from the forces. Makes for an excellent ride, but not for re-riding by any means. :)

Last edited by SteveWoA, Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:40 AM
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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:42 PM

The pretzel loop is one of the primary reasons I'm not a fan of S:UF. I found it downright uncomfortable. I like the overall flying sensation better than the Vekoma flyers (although the vertical loop is similar in intensity), but generally speaking, flyers are beyond 'meh' to me.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:53 PM

Also not a fan, particularly in the back of the train. It's just not a good feeling to me. I don't fundamentally object to flying coasters, but that part on the B&M's makes me really uncomfortable.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:04 PM

What I do know is that the literature I have read (the usual reports on G-forces and injuries that came out a few years ago; there are probably links in the news section) indicate that the human body can withstand substantially higher forces in the +X direction than in any other...that is, pushed backward into your seat. Not many rides exploit this; the only ones I can think of off-hand are the Gravitron, Super Round-Up, Twister, Cycloid...and the "flying" coasters from B&M and Vekoma.

So the pretzel loop is a very heavy force, and it's done that way for a reason: it's a novel feature of the flying coaster.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:57 PM

I agree with Jeff. I am not a huge fan of the Pretzel loop. It's too much for me. I do also agree that Manta's P loop is much better than superman. I also prefer it over superman in general b/c it has great theming, nice splashdown effect (although it doesn't really touch the water at all..) and more inversions. Give me a loop or corkscrew anyday is what I say!

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:17 PM

I said re: S:UF in my SFGA trip report dated 5/28/10:
But I have to say, that pretzel loop was so much fun I still smile thinking about it. Completely cool and made the ride for me.

I really enjoyed the pretzel loop. I don't remember it being too forceful. Granted, I was pretty tense anyway riding in such an awkward position. But I really had fun through the loop.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:35 PM

I don't like the Pretzel Loop that much. The forces of it combined with the slow loading and sitting with your head tilted on the brake run for a few minutes, I only ride Superman at Great Adventure a few times a season.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:53 PM

When I first rode S:UF at SFGAm, I thought the pretzel loop was the most intense inversion I'd ever been on. But then when I rode Tatsu, I didn't think that one was bad at all. And I rode Tatsu several times that day since it was a walk-on, trying it in every part of the train.

Perhaps I was just mesmerized by the incredible views... :)

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:39 AM

The one at oG was uncomfortable the first time because I wasn't expecting those forces and I couldn't breath because I'd just exhaled in the top of the loop.

When I rode at GAdv, I knew what to expect and didn't mind it. Didn't ride oG's this year because they ran only one train and the line was way too long for me to care about.

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:45 AM

See, I really don't get the pretzel loop - you shouldn't have to be prepared for elements of a ride to ensure comfort. That said, I do have a 'damage limitation' protocol in mind when riding the older SLCs.

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:48 AM

It wasn't so much about comfort, but about the forces. I should have worded it differently I guess. It's like a helix, you know the forces are there. I was expecting something like a Vekoma Flyer loop, but the B&M Pretzel was much more forceful. Had I not just breathed out, it wouldn't have been an issue.

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:04 AM

The pretzel loop WAS really cool....at first. But the B&M flyers seemed kinda "been there, done that" since the P loop was really pretty much all there was. Manta and Tatsu showed that elevation can play a major role in changing the ride experience (and both are significant improvements over even the oG ride).

Now, at long last, a B&M flyer with a traditional vertical loop is being built (in China). Hoping that, IF we get more B&M flyers stateside, we'll get some that are more interesting layout-wise...

Here's the World Joyland ride stats: http://www.rcdb.com/8983.htm

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Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:03 PM

Maybe I didn't notice the reported discomfort of the pretzel loop because I think the entire experience is slightly uncomfortable. I mean, it's not a very natural position. I felt like I was doing a variation of the downward facing dog the entire time.

But I really didn't notice the intensity of the pretzel loop. I just thought it was fun. It was a pretty cool sensation to me.

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Monday, August 23, 2010 11:45 PM

Manta's pretzel is intense yet fun.. However dont re ride on the back right seat.. When I rode +40 times for media day I kept getting stuck on that seat for video shots. It became brutal very fast after the first 1/2 dozen in a row. Ironically it was the first time I ever saw a large amount of enthusiasts prefer sitting down vs re-riding..

But I do have to say B&M did well with the restraints and seat design as it was the least uncomfortable flying coaster I had ever been on overall.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:30 AM

Are the restraints on Manta different than the other B&M flyers? I was on S:UF at SFGAdv a couple weeks ago and while not painful at all, I can see where it would be uncomfortable to some people.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:32 PM

^Ken, now with this additional information, I think we may have met... ;)

Personally, I don't think the restraints are all that uncomfortable, but the flying position makes pretty much *everything* uncomfortable, save for "straight flying"...

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 2:10 PM

kpjb - No, all the B&M Flyers utilize the same harness system.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:56 PM

I liked the loop itself, and it's a creative solution for flyers, but I'll agree with Carrie that the overall ride itself was uncomfortable. For me, the thought of every bit of my weight up against the restraint the entire time was unnerving and afterwards my arms ached - I believe I was subconsiously trying to push myself upwards into the back of the seat. I fared better than my partner, though, who as I recall, threw up in Georgia.

The pretzel loop seems strange because it orients your body differently than a standard upside down element - you're looking down at the top, upside down on the way down, on your back at the bottom, then sitting upright on the way back up. That's where the "breather" comes, but not really, as the train is traveling at a high rate of speed to make it back to the top. There, your body is returned to what I consider to be a stressful position so it seems like the ride never gives you a break.

Now, I have never tried Tatsu, and that ride looks like a gas and seems like an ingenious design- but I'm afraid for me it may be a one-cycle-only credit!

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