Premier lap bar question

I'm curious, does anyone know what prompted Premier to replace all of their OTSR's with lapbars? I mean, did the park executives complain to Premier about guests complaining of how brutal they were, or did Premier realize they had designed human torture devices and decided on their own to replace the OTSR's?? Just wondering if anyone knew why they did that with all of their coasters...

And speaking of lapbar restraints, why dont all coaster builders just use lapbar restraints on their coasters instead of OTSR? I can understand the need for the shoulder harnesses on inverts, but on sit downs? Imagine how nice Arrows would be with lapbars...*sigh*

There're definitely some times when I'm glad there's an OTSR. Most zero-g rolls, and the front row of a sit-down/floorless during a loop. (The train is still slowing down as you're facing almost vertical down)

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A rollercoaster? What's that?

They make all the difference on the Flight Of Fear. Now if only they got rid of the stupid things that hold down your legs.

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"You're a Stone Fox" - Trip Fontaine

I think the reason for shoulder harnesses is that when coasters started looping, people would be afraid to ride (or rather, the industry would be afraid people wouldn't ride) if they only had lap bars. Of course, Revolution opened with lap bars. So that may be part of the reason. Also, insurers tend to be picky about rides and they prefer shoulder harnesses to lap bars, in their minds OTSR's are safer.

Kurt, I think that the "stupid things that hold down your legs" are pretty necessary. The first time I went on a Premiere spaghetti-bowl or pasta-bowl was the Jokers Jinx coaster at SFA this past month. I sat in the backmost seat. It literally felt like a weightless rodeo ride - it was fantastic! However, I'm very glad that I didn't have just a lapbar holding me into my seat. Besides, if it takes that item in addition to the lapbar for the holding restraint package to satisfy whoever in order to rid those coasters of the brutal OTSR, so much more power to it.

The reason the ankle bar is there is to make absolutely certain that your legs are folded around the front edge of the seat. This insures that once the lap bar comes down over your knees, there is theoretically no way for you to slide out from under the bar. It's not a new idea; Anton Schwarzkopf did the same thing with his lap bars on rides like Hersheypark's Sooperdooperlooper.

I don't know why Premier Rides made the change, but I am sure glad they did. I know it caused them to be awarded a second IAAPA prize for "best new technology applied to amusement rides" for the LIMcat coaster. That's right, same award that they were given in '95 for the same ride! :)

As for why all coaster designers don't use lap bars...I think the biggest problem is "inertia." The ones who are using shoulder bars have a system that they think is OK and they haven't decided yet that there is a compelling reason to change. It would be nice if their customers (the parks) would push the issue a little.....

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
"I never met a shoulder bar I liked."

The interesting thing is that I think that "inertia" that Dave speaks of might be slowing. For example, B&M has developed a new restraint system for their flyers that is closer to their hypercoaster restraints than their typical horsecollar. Who says that they can't put that restraint on an inverted, standup, or floorless??

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

It'd be hard to put on a floorless/inverted.

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Why do they report power outages on TV?

WHY would it be hard to put on a floorless or inverted? Remember the B&M flyer train is basically an inverted train, and the lap bar pivot point is located behind the rider's head just as with the shoulder bar on the inverted train. Lateral clearance might be a problem, but if we're redesigning the train anyway, why not put the seats 2" further apart?

Of course, I want to see B&M put their Flyer lap bar arrangement on the inverted coaster WITHOUT the cloth shoulder harness.......

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

IIRC, the idea was PKI's to change OL:FoF (V1.0) to a lapbar configuration. They contacted Premier, who figured out how they could retrofit the trains with laps (and yes, that Z-position dictated by the shinbars IS essential). When they were installed on FoF (V2.0), they were instantly SUCH a hit with park personnel, enthusiasts, and the GeePs, that other parks wanted in.....

I still remember the "short" lines for the old version, and once the headache goes away, I'll probably remember how BAD the ride used to bang my head....(at least in the outdoors versions, you could see the twists in the upcoming track and TRY to prepare yourself.....in vain, of course)....

After riding the "new and improved" Sonny and FoF V2.0, I can honestly say that PKI is the park that deserves an award for improving existing rides....

For some reason i don't think they are done with Sonny yet :) hopefully, but anyways the launched rides are so much better now and Paramount is brilliant for asking for them.

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Can we change the name of Top Gun to your mom so no one wants to ride your mom?

At SFA, the GP seems to have also responded very positively to the introduction of the lap bars on Joker's Jinx.

Of course, carefully designed transitions will help to reduce the amount of head baning if OTSRs are used.

There is another solution to the problem of head banging, and that is very careful detail design of OTSRs. T2 at SFKK now has new head pads that are a vast improvement. The track of this Vekoma SLC is quite rough, but the new (as compared to 2 years ago) head pads due a wonderful job of painlessly absorbing the impact of your head. And in addition, they don't soak up sweat like some other soft pads do.

I've tried really hard to get out of the Intamin mega trains when I was stopped on the final break run, and even if the lap bar is pretty high up, there's no way I'm coming out of the train. Is the ankle bar just over engineering, or is there something I'm missing?

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A rollercoaster? What's that?

Intamin's tactic is a little different...the floor design in their 'mega' train, in particular on Millennium Force, doesn't give you enough room to straighten your legs out under the bar. Although I was able to do so on S:ROS at Darien Lake when I sat in the back seat; I can't do it on Millennium Force and I couldn't do it on S:ROS in any of the odd-numbered rows.

Intamin's technique is comparable to what PKI did with Son of Beast. Sonny is a little more extreme, though.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The same is true for B&M hypers (for me...a skinny asian guy) and I can definitely get my legs perfectly straight on those. I mean, on the B&M's at least, it seems like the back of the seat is close enough to the front of the lap bar that you just don't have enough room to squeeze your thighs up and out....

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A rollercoaster? What's that?

Not to mention that your feet don't reach the floor, so there's nothing for you to push against...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Well, I tried to jack myself out with my arms. It just didn't seem like there was any way I was getting out of there, no matter what the position of the train, and there certainly weren't any ankle restraints....

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A rollercoaster? What's that?

I believe that the reclined, deep "bucket" seats on the B&Ms additionally make escape difficult. But with the exception of the Premier trains, I am convinced that if I wanted to, I could get out of just about any coaster restraint. But I would have to really WANT to.

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"To get inside this head of mine, would take a monkey-wrench, and a lot of wine" Res How I Do

I know its just experimenting and all, but your not supposed to get out of those restraints if they are there, they are there for your safety, Sorry if I sound dumb but it's true.

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Can we change the name of Top Gun to your mom so no one wants to ride your mom?

I know. It was in the final brake run, while we were going to be advanced into the station. I wasn't actually going to get out, but to see if I could even if I wanted to.

I saw some guy at SFMM get out of a train while it was stopped on the brake run for a tech problem. He got thrown out of the park. I don't want that (let alone to fall out of a moving train or anything like that).

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A rollercoaster? What's that?