Podcast; Markets that could support a park but don't have one yet?

Monday, February 12, 2007 11:50 AM
^ What about Lagoon?

Northern NJ. It's only one of the most populated places in the country, if not the world. And nearby NYC- the largest city in the country- has NO major amusement parks, just Coney Island and Rye Playland.

*** Edited 2/12/2007 4:50:58 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:53 AM
Are you forgeeting about SF in norther jersy? You know, where Kingda Ka is????
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Monday, February 12, 2007 11:58 AM
^ South-central Jersey...

But, yeah, that IS the park that NYC residents go to...since they don't know any better... ;)

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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:03 PM
SFGAdv isn't in North Jersey -- Jackson is in central Jersey, almost at the dead center of the state. Granted, the drive isn't really that far (from my town, about 10 miles from the NY state border, you can get there in an hour and 15 minutes), but anyone from the state can attest that there's a HUGE difference between Northern and Central.

Rob, the problem with putting a park in North Jersey is space. All the areas that would have enough room (like Sussex County and northern Passaic County) don't have the road infrastructure to make them too accessible. It'd be a traffic nightmare.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:09 PM
Great Adventure is definitely south central NJ. And as Dave said, there is a big difference.

I know that space is a problem, not to mention land value. With small parcels of land going for millions, it would cost an unbelievable amount of money just to secure the space to build a park. But if you get out to places like Hope (where Land of Make Believe is), the land values go down quite a bit, especially where there is a lot of land available. I've always wanted to buy LOMB and turn it into a larger family park. I think it would be very successful.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:15 PM
So I don't know Jersey that well. Last time I was down there I was pulling a load of ice cream that had to be in Boston by morning.
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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:17 PM
We're not insulting you, just correcting you. When posting on a message board such as this, you have to develop some thick skin since it's hard to figure out from typed words what kind of "tone" someone is taking with you. We're about conversation but we're also about correcting one another! ;)
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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:22 PM
It's okay. i'm new here. Hey at least i knew Kingda ka was SOMEWHERE in Jersey.
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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:26 PM
That's fine. As Moosh said elsewhere, it pays to spend a little time seeing how conversations play out. But make sure you don't take people TOO seriously- many of us have ways of typing our thoughts and they don't always sound the way we want them too. And there are PLENTY of people who enjoy corrected people around here, it's just the nature of the beast.

Anyway, welcome to the boards.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:37 PM
I know I might get blasted for this, but I still think that Phoenix could use an amusement park (other than castles and coasters). The climate calls for year round operation, and it is the sixth most populated city in the country (though not a particularily large metropolitan area). It is relativley close to the grand canyon, and many folks go to places such as scottsdale for vacation. I understand that Arizona is mostly elderly people, but then again, so is florida, and we all see how well those parks have turned out. I think an amusement park with a large water park would be very successful in Phoenix
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Monday, February 12, 2007 12:44 PM
Duff, you got a good point. Pluss, that area is growing every day. Not sure what you'd use for a theam.

You could definitly use the "Desert Oasis" thing for the water park.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 3:45 PM
I think Phoenix needs a park. Isn't that still one of the fastest-growing metro areas? Makes sense that there'd be a demand for more of everything there. Except golf. They apparantly have enough of that already. Although that's like saying Vegas has enough casinos.
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Monday, February 12, 2007 5:52 PM

Olsor said:
Gonch - I'd still say that Holiday World is in the middle of nowhere. It just happens to be a centrally located middle of nowhere.

I thought Elysburg had a lock on that title. Well, actually my town does-- 2.5 hours from NYC, Philly, Baltimore, but we don't have a park... we used to, but you wouldn't know it looking at it now.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 6:38 PM
Other "middle of nowhere" parks (not in a metro area or major tourism area) are Knoebels Silverwood, Indiana Beach, and Arnold's Park.

Knoebels, of course has enough population within daytrip distance to make up for this. Silverwood is in a region with a scarcity of parks and draws many visitors from Washington and, to a lesser extent Montana, as well as Idaho. IB gets most visitors from Indianapolis (no significant sized parks) and Chicago (fron those looking for a park that is more affordable or more traditional than SFGAm). Arnolds draws from a variety of areas where parks are in limited supply (they did go through a period like that which Conneaut Lake is going through now but appear to have turned the corner).

Several of the markets lacking a suitably sized park are among those that lost parks in recent years. These include Houston (Kemah's is too small to cover the potential demand), Nashville (this has been a boon for Beech Bend and Dollywood), Tulsa, and Memphis.

The problem with Phoenix is the climate. Too hot during the main park season when school is normally out. The two possible solutions are: an indoor park similar to the Park at MOA but larger or a park in the Flagstaff area. Flagstaff has the right climate for a summer seasonal park and is also a gateway to the Grand Canyon, drawing many tourists. Many people for Phoenix go there during the summer to escape the heat. *** Edited 2/12/2007 11:43:13 PM UTC by Arthur Bahl***

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Monday, February 12, 2007 8:06 PM
Sorry guys, I had a much better post then this. It was VERY long and detailed, I didn't really try to hard for this one because Im mad, after doing about 1 HOUR worth of typing, I made it perfect grammar, used spellcheck and had FULLY detailed responses to every city, I pushed the submit reply only to find out: MY LOGIN EXPIRED. Damn, I hate that. But life goes on.. Anyways heres a little Jr. Version I threw together, It's not as detailed and there may be mistakes because I wanna send this before THIS expires too, lol.

- Phoenix, AZ (Only have one tiny park in a city of over 1 million people, plus lots of travel to Grand Canyons, people going to CA would be able to support 1 if not, 2 MAJOR parks)

- Seattle, WA (Yeah, There is that park under the space needle, but c'mon Bill Gates should pay for a Seattle park;) bigger then the one they already have)

- Omaha, NB

- Houston, TX (With SFAW, SFNO closing many locals probably Don't want to take the drive to SFFT or SFOT or the other TX parks. Astroworld proved Houston could support a park, and this time Houston needs one WITHOUT all the rundown rides and poor treatment they got)

- New Orleans, LA (SFNO is gone for good probably, and the NO area population will probably come back within the next 5-10 year so a park would be a good idea)

- Birmingham, AB (In between, FL and New Orleans, Could also bring in alot of people from the ATL area)

- N/S Dakota (With Millions of people a ytear comming to see Mt. Rushmore and being right against the Canadian border, bordering SK and MB, which ALSO don't have parks Im VERY sure this could be a succesful location)

- Anchorage/Juneau, AK (Cities with about 80-100 Thousand people, Very big tourist location, Could support a smaller indoor summer park, due to the cold winters)

- Honolulu, HI (Metro over 1 million, lot's of tourists, Build a park = $$!)

- Detroit, MI/ Windsor, ON (Yeah, CP & MiAd are close but there is actually NO park in Detroit itself, a metro of close to 4 million? (I don't know, I Didn't look that up), and close to Ontario which has a HUDGE population)

- London, ON - (Has about half a million people, is about a 2.5 hour drive from both Detroit & Toronto and about a little over an hour from Hamilton, I think it would be succesful)

- Hamilton, ON (Has about 750,000 people, Is Right between Toronto(4+Million, PCW) & Buffalo(500,000+, SFDL), Also only 35-45 min drive from the popular Niagara Falls, ON and is located right where the MILLIONS of US drivers shortcut through Ontario from Detroit-Buffalo(Hwy 403&QEW & soon to be RedHill Expressway/LINC) Could be a very big tourist location considering almost EVERY U.S. Tourist going to T.O. passes through Hamilton an amusement park would be good)

- El Paso, Tx (Border City, could support a smaller park)

- Vancouver, BC (Big population, only has a very small park. Could use a very big "thrill" park)

- Calgary, AB (With the population there SOARING due to the Oil industry in the AB oil fields and a population of over 1 Million in Calgary im VERY sure a park would be good - Also the millions of people who travel to see the Stampede each summer could have somwhere else to go while in town)

- Ottawa, ON (No explanation, But could support a park)

- Portland, OR

- Providence, RI

- Las Vegas, NV (Yes, I know theres the NYNY, Adventuredome, Nascar Cafe etc. But Vegas could really support a BIG park for the locals and for the tourists considering most parks in vegas are just 1-coaster parks)

- Jacksonville, FL (Right at the top of the state, Biggest city by population in Fl. , Could use a park and be a "rest area" for people going down to Orlando)

- Chicago, IL (3rd Biggest Metro in the US, Yes they have a few parks, SFGam being a big one, Chi-Town could def. support another MAJOR park)

- NYC/Jersey City/Northern Jersey (MASSSSIVE population, approx 25 Million?, yet NO major park. Should be something local for the millions of people who live in NYC and don't own cars)

- Vermont/Connecticut/New Hampshire/Delaware (Has enough population to support it, States are small and within a day drive, Plus lot's of tourists travelling to Montreal pass through/comming from Montreal, Could support a nice small park)

- Halifax, NS (Atlantic Canada could really use a park)

- Boise, ID

- Winnipeg, MB

- Regina, SK

- Salt Lake City, UT

- Washington, D.C. (Major tourist destination, Baltimore people would be able to go there too)

- Albuqurque, NM

- Maine (A very Northern, US park could be potential here, also lots of traffic going on ferry to Canada pass through)

- Nashville, TN (No explanation needed..)

- San Fransisco/Bay Area (Yes, SFDK is there, but something more IN THE CITY could be big)

- Toronto, ON (Call me crazy, but even with PCW, Centreville, The CNE etc., Im VERY sure a Metro of 4+ million plus the Golden Horsehoe, 8+ Million, COULD use another park, even if just a small one, would also give more choice to locals instead of just CW)

- Philadeplhia, PA

- Little Rock, AR

- Indanapolis - (Pretty big population, Would save people from going all the way to HW, SFKK & IB, also people from Chicago and Minneapolis could possibly travel to the park)

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Monday, February 12, 2007 8:35 PM
"Birmingham, AB (In between, FL and New Orleans, Could also bring in alot of people from the ATL area)"

Birmingham already has Alabama Adventure (Visionland), and its attendance has never been stellar.

"Steamboat City" that was to be built in Southeast Georgia was meant to draw off Jacksonville and the I-95 traffic to Florida, but apparently the plans for the park stalled out.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 9:06 PM
To take what Six Flags Darien Lake said on some locations:

Seattle, WA - already has Wild Waves/Enchanted Village, a former SF park. Like Jeff had pointed out in one of his earlier podcasts the Seattle - Portland region could sustain a decent sized park.

Houston, TX - could support another park but with Kemah starting to add big rides I don't know if this city will see a big park again.

New Orleans, LA - I think it will be longer than five or ten years before another park opens here, if it should ever happen. Supposedly SFNO or even its earlier incarnation as Jazzland didn't do very well in that market.

N/S Dakota - I doubt there's enough local population that will support a park. But Idaho's Silverwood seems to prove that theory wrong.

Detroit, MI/ Windsor, ON - better off with your other location - London, Ontario. It's a good distance from any competition yet with easy access between Detroit/Windsor and Niagara Falls/Toronto it could be a centralized location for a country that doesn't have many medium to big sized parks.

El Paso, TX - Western Playland, I believe, is moving to a bigger location in the area.

Calgary, AB - already has Calaway Park, which seems to fit the Calgary market well looking at their website.

Jacksonville, FL - I believe Jacksonville has close connections with Wild Adventures in Valdosta, Georgia and SFoG is probably not that far.

Salt Lake City, UT - as already pointed out, has Lagoon in Farmington (between SLC and Ogden). Seems to serve that metro area pretty well.

Washington, D.C. - has Six Flags America in Largo. Kings Dominion/Busch Gardens Europe are an easy drive down the 95. There were plans at one time for a third Great America to be located here as well as Disney's America.

San Fransisco/Bay Area - you forgot Great America in nearby Santa Clara so they are already served by two good sized parks.

Toronto, ON - as huge and sprawling as Toronto is I think it could support another major park.

X Factor *** Edited 2/13/2007 2:08:50 AM UTC by X Factor***

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Monday, February 12, 2007 9:11 PM
I know I am going to get pounced on for saying this, but I think that Detroit could use a good park.

I know that cedarpoint is only 3 hours away, but I think that a local park about the size of holiday world would be great.

Even Michigans adventure is 4 hours away from detroit.

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Monday, February 12, 2007 9:27 PM
^ Your not the only one.
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Monday, February 12, 2007 9:47 PM
Well they could always go to Six Flags Motor World... what? Oh that's right it closed down... my bad. ;)
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