Phantom's trains?

Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:05 PM
Does anyone know if Kennywood announced what type of trains are going to be used on Phantom's Revenge? Will they be Arrow hyper trains similiar to the ones on Desperado and Magnum? *** This post was edited by Beavis on 11/28/2000. ***
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:07 PM
I would think you would put Morgan trains on Morgan track, don't you think?

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:24 PM
I would think so. Take a look at the trains on Mamba and Steel Force. I imagine the rolling stock will be the same .
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:40 PM
From what I heard at the begining of all this, they were planing to refurbish the Phantom's trains, retaining the chasis of the old ones and putting on new everything else.

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Everybody calm down, the coasters do not open for another fifteen minutes.
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:06 PM
Oh, are the sections that are being retained from the steel phantom getting retracked too? I didn't even know that Morgan was doing it, I just thought since Arrow built it originally they were modifying it. Sorry if I sound dumb for not knowing that.
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:46 PM
I've heard that they're rebuilding the whole thing. But without living in PA I can't say for sure. I would doubt that Morgan would retain the old trains as they caused a bit of problems, and the lack of OTSR. So expect the same great coffin boxes on the Revenge.

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:51 PM
Jeff, I am going there friday. I will get an update. At last account, they were going to attempt to put Morgan tops and reataning the Arrow chassis. These are the original from 1991. Some sections of track are remaining. Kennywood is also saving the inversions for God only knows what else. They framed a kitchen for the old Whip building, which was converted into a picnic pavillion from discarded Thunderbolt lumber. The whole train deal is to eliminate the shoulder harnesses and replace with happy lap bars.
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:08 PM
See, I've always felt that the Arrow looping chassis couldn't really be retooled for a better wheel system. I've never been on a Morgan but I would think that their system is better than Arrow's hunt-and-peck wheel bouncing.

Other than actual support structure, I really can't see them recycling any actual track. It just doesn't make sense to me.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:14 PM
I really hope that they don't use the ugly trains like SD2K.

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Number 1 And Only Cedar Point
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 7:30 AM
I am going to be driving past Kennywood this evening. I will see what I can see from the road and report back tomorrow.
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 7:44 AM
There is really not much to see from the road. The first 2 lift hills have green track on it, and that's about all you'll see. The rest of it is out of sight.

From my understanding, the trains are not even in the park, they were sent somewhere to be revamped and refurbished.

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Neil
Pittsburgh, PA
www.geocities.com/neildeweese
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 9:43 AM
Save it all. The trains are away. The onlytrack being retained is the lift hill, the first drop, and the second hill that stops in mid air. Morgan is making compatible track. I just think going that fast with only lap bars will be incredible.
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:14 PM
Jeff, if you compare the design of the Morgan coaster cars (West Coaster, Steel Eel, Steel Force, Mamba, Wild Thing) to the Arrow Runaway Train cars (Magnum XL-200, Desperado, The Big One, Gemini, etc.) you will find that the undercarriages are almost identical in basic design and layout. The difference...the ONLY significant difference...is the position of the primary spine beam that supports the car. Arrow puts the axles above the central support beam; Morgan puts them below. Apart from that, and subtle differences in materials and measurements, the cars are essentially the same design.

Now, Phantom's Revenge is retaining certain bits of Arrow track, and it is not entirely clear whether or not this includes the first drop. It is entirely possible that Morgan's rolling stock is incapable of negotiating the twist into the first half of Steel Phantom's first drop.

Unfortunately, the Tom Delano renderings are not very helpful as they show only a single row of riders in each car. But there is nothing wrong with the Arrow car chassis, so it seems likely that Morgan may retain the chassis and come up with their own bodies and seats...as was announced some months ago. There's no reason it wouldn't work...Morgan's track and Arrow's track are very similar, and Morgan is certainly familiar with Arrow product (Steve Okamoto, Morgan's lead engineer, designed coasters for Arrow, for crying out loud...for that matter, have a look at http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/bobsled.html and notice whose name is at the top of that page, right next to Karl Bacon. Morgan Manufacturing is owned by Dana Morgan. Ed is, I believe his father...and in fact, Dana was once the President of Arrow Development.).

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 3:11 PM
What I don't get about that is all the additional R&D to make it all work. Why they wouldn't just pitch all of the track and use existing Morgan everything is beyond me.

Are the wheel tolerances better on the Morgans, Dave?

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:50 PM
Personally I love the coffin trains.

Long Live the Wild Thing!

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it
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Wednesday, November 29, 2000 7:22 PM
What additional R&D? The Morgan track is approximately the same design as the Arrow track; the big difference is that the track ties are flat plate steel (probably laser cut) instead of forged square tubing. I'm not sure about the dimensions, but ten minutes with a tape measure is all you need to work that out. If the clearances are held constant, then the same chassis components can be used. Every foot of re-used track is a foot of track that doesn't have to be fabricated. Look what they're doing with this thing...they keep the lift hill structure, they keep most of the second drop structure, they keep the lift track, they keep the station track, they keep the lift, they keep the brakes on both sides of the station...heck, they can probably even keep the control system unless they want to add a third train.
Of course, sticking with only two trains means they can use the existing chassis, which is known to work. Kennywood wants new car bodies with lap bars, and that should be no big problem; Steel Phantom has had its car bodies replaced before. The result of all this is that the parts of the ride that are the most costly to fabricate...the tall structure for the lift, the lift mechanicals, and so on...are all re-used. Arrow even made it easy...unlike most Arrow coasters which have welded rails, the rails on Steel Phantom are bolted together using welded flanges outboard of the rails and bolts through adjacent track-ties. So even connecting the Morgan track to the Arrow track should be easy.
The result of all this? Twice the coaster for half the money. Wouldn't you do the same if you had the option?

I don't know how the wheel tolerances compare between the two manufacturers. I suspect that the big difference between Arrow '91 and Morgan '01 is precision in bending the track curves.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Thursday, November 30, 2000 4:07 AM
Dave says: ...unlike most Arrow coasters which have welded rails, the rails on Steel Phantom are bolted together using welded flanges outboard of the rails and bolts through adjacent track-ties.

Ahhh... now that makes me feel better about the whole thing. I didn't know that. Subconcsiously, I've had an image of people using cutting torches on that ride since they announced their "green" plans. I think that's what has really troubled me!

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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