Parks with a Bisch-Rocco Flying Scooter (Flyers)

I really don't know why so many parks are against the snapping. knoebles was, but quickly abandoned that rule, and PKD (according to freinds) frown on it as well.

Is it an insurance thing, or are parks just really conservative with ride parts?

As I recall, blown gearboxes are a chronic problem with these rides. It is more than likely that "snapping" telegraphs through the frame to the drive,causing excessive strain on the gears. Kennywood's was pulled from service several times due to a gearbox failure.

Hmmmmmmm... Gearbox failures. Can't say I ever heard of that before, but of course, I am not an engineer. I wonder if thats a rare occurence or if it indeed happens a lot.

Small budget parks seem to operate Scooters with ease and have them running most of the time, perhaps the rides, though over 60 years old, still require a very small repair price tag.

*** This post was edited by john peck on 11/16/2001. ***

Maybe I just hit them on a good day, but I found Lagoon's Flyers some of the easiest to snap. I snapped 'em once very quickly on purpose, and then once again after getting yelled at while I was deliberately trying not to snap. I suspect, with a slight change in operational policies, they could rank up there with Whalom's and PKI's.

If you want to see why park's don't allow snapping, stick around for the Hangover day after PPP at Knoebel's. Both of the last years they've had to close off a not-insignificant number of tubs following the event. It's amazing how battered the tubs can get in just one day of constant snapping.

rye playland used to have one near the water that had a good snap on a windy day. also the old paragon park had one that replaced a circle swing that was 20 feet in the air, that really scared you. nowadays the one at knobels is probably the best. i was there twice this year and i almost got thown out of the car on my first visit. but of course on my next visit i rode it twice.

John,while the bearings used in these are off the shelf, the gears in the gearboxes are not, but a suitable replacement box can run you around five g's the last time I priced them. You can have new gears made, but this can cost you as much as a new gearbox.

Jeez! Thats a lot of money!

But anyway, with being a popular ride, it does take a bit of pampering to keep running for so many years.

As some other threads have mentioned, the NEW Scooters being installed at PGA this year are going to be manufactured by Larson, builders of the HI Roller and Super Loops.

Also, with the increasing popularity, PKI is rumored to have ERT on theirs this year for the coaster event(s)

well Tim Melego has a listing of parks with skooters as well as a listing of parks with Lusse Dodgems.

I would point out that Americana has a 10 tub modle but is not very good since the metal tubs were replaced by fiberglass tubs. SFWOA has one in storage, Geneva by the lake has one, Lake Compounce has them and I hear they are to be re installed this year down by the raft ride.

Chuck, who dosn't have the link to Tim's site as he is a guest on this puter. If some one else has it please post it or I will do so as soon as I get home. Thanks

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Charles Nungester
Park Jockey :)

Coasterville Dave said:
[unnecessarily long quote removed -J]

Im not going to go into the fine art of HOW TOO as I only think you can watch and learn or figure it out on your own.
I will comment on that one ride on 1/4/01 though. Me, Derek and Ravenphile and Mike from Nashville and a couple others all bottomed snapped at the same time and the whole structure just shook so hard it knocked everyone out of rythem. It also caused a minor injury when Mike from Nashville hit the wing and broke his sunglasses on his nose. (Nothing Major) That is not the first time I have seen that happen or been on it when that has happened. Sometimes one tub can snap so hard it destroys the whole rythem of the ride.
Chuck, who can and has gone to PKI before only to ride the Flying Eagles and is not a candidate for most snaps but can surely compete for hardest snap!
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Charles Nungester
Park Jockey :)

*** This post was edited by Jeff on 1/24/2002. ***

gatorwoodie said:
I (Phinally) learned how to "snap" at PPP this year...taught by some of the best, one even got "caught" on the cables (shouldn't you get a re-ride for that!). I have never sought them out at parks before, but you can bet I'll be looking for 'em now. If I learned one thing about phlying, it's that you gotta practice...
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Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!

Hey, If you can snap Knoebels you can snap any (Snappable) ones. I also heard that at PPP, Knoebels Flyers were running slower than normal??????
Now as for PKI's and Americana's (Old Tubs) I have snapped them since I was a little kid. Knoebels took about 10 rides to figure it out but after I did it was the awesomest Flyers I have ridden. I still give the edge to PKI for consistancy. I personally think that some ops at Knoebels may not turn it to FULL SPEED. I could be wrong.
Chuck

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Charles Nungester
Park Jockey :)

john peck said:
Unfortunatly, the PORTIBLE models are close to impossible to "snap" since the cables are shorter and the rides radius is less as well. Geauga lakes and Seabreeze's seem to run too fast and the ones at Strickers, Conneaut and Holiday World will give you some bumping but not much.
*** This post was edited by john peck on 11/12/2001. ***

At this years Golden Ticket awards day at HW we had mass snappage. I personally hit the try by the restrooms so hard that I thought I damaged the ride. (Let alone the tree). Mid day I was mass snapping but later in the day with many enthusiast I was having problems but others got them to snap good. (Raven Phile and Jack!) Even without snappage on HW's you can get some great altitude!
Chuck, who considers HW's flyers his 3rd favorite.
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Charles Nungester
Park Jockey :)

john peck said:
I really don't know why so many parks are against the snapping. knoebles was, but quickly abandoned that rule, and PKD (according to freinds) frown on it as well.
Is it an insurance thing, or are parks just really conservative with ride parts?

Knoebels still seems to be a operators perogative about snappage. Im sure it would prove unpopular at PPP to enforce the rule though.
PKD has made thier flyers snappable now but it is posted not too do it.
I am unsure why, The ride has been around some 50+ years and Im sure sombody has snapped em plenty over the years and it is still SAFE!
I do see some parks taking extra precautions, PKI has a extra cable running through the cables to the structure, From the cables to the tub and even a cable through the tubs frame itself! Other parks I have seen some variation of one or more but never all three extras like PKI's.
Chuck, who sometimes dose not snap on purpose but trys for altitude.

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Charles Nungester
Park Jockey :)

Regarding the gearbox...

The unit presumably at Lake Compounce (the one Kennywood had most recently) had an oddball drive system that looked like it had been adapted from a Paratrooper that had itself been modified for hydraulic drive. That is, the ride frame was powered by a pneumatic drive tire (like an automobile tire) supplying a friction drive against a steel rim attached to the sweeps. I would think that such an arrangement combined with a typical torque converter (fluid clutch) would minimize gearbox damage regardless of what the riders are doing. Hydraulic drive would also help, I would think.

Kings Dominion has a park model ride, and unlike the one at PKI it sits out in the open, it sits on a hill, it has long cables, it runs at a perfect speed, and it has an operator who was being very hostile to any tub bouncing the day I was there. Which was a shame because with all that ride had going for it, I could probably have had that tub turning corkscrews...! :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan, the drive on the Kennywood (Lake Compounce) one that you describe sounds like fairly recent inhouse fix. I remember from my days as a youth (which is longer than I care to think about)the "Flyer" still had the original gear and pinion drive on it.

Dutchman, remember also that the old Kennywood Flying Scooter is the one...er, if I remember correctly, it's the one now operating at Knoebels...that one not only has the old gear drive on it, it has a propane engine on it. I was thinking of the Phantom Phlyer, the one that I have no idea where it came from.

In any case, I think you're right about the nature of the drive mod. I've never seen another one like that before or since. It just looks like they took a conversion kit straight off a Paratrooper.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The beauty of this ride had been stolen from my home park, Clemonton Lake Park. We had these beauties removed for a poor excuse of a sea dragon. We seems to have lost everything in that park for one reason or another. The only rides that are worth going for is the Jack Rabbit and the Flume... Preparing for a journey to Cedar Point to lose the Cedar Point Virginity.

Dave, are you sure your not thinking of the Seabreeze Scooters (green & yellow portible)? They have a tire drive much like you stated.

Paranout's Great America is geting their own Flying Scooters this year, but i really have no idea who the manufacturer is.

No, John, I'm not thinking of those awful ones at Seabreeze, I'm thinking of the ones I never rode that were at Kennywood. That was a park model, not a portable.

carr76013, everything I've seen indicates that the PGA ride will be coming from Larson...that's the Ring of Fire/Super Loops people.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The Kennywood/Compounce Phantom Phlyers were formerly run at a local-ish defunct park. Which one is currently eluding me, but for some reason West View and Euclid are jumping out at me.
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"When I was growing up, we were taught something called manners. You'd understand that if you weren't such an idiot." - Jack Handey