Parks and war
Vertigo said:Are you forgeting that Osama Bin Laden is backing up Saddam Hussein? Also, it would be great impact if they did take down a resort, especially a Walt Disney Resort!
Osama's original intentions were to bomb the Space Needle, Disneyland, and the Capitol Building. Don't be too sure that he wont attempt his original plans again.
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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean
What impact? All it would do is scare us. And if the world were to find that Hussein were behind it, the world might find it to be a slight injustice.
Hussein's current mission is to get the UN and the rest of the world against us, and sadly it's going well for him.
The world would believe attacks from him on our military to be our own fault, but an attack on civilians would be different.
Oh, and well, I don't think Bin Laden is backing much now.
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Kingbob wrote this.
The other impact would be the absolute shutdown of vacation travel within the US, which would be crippling to the economy. Airlines going out of business is never a good thing.
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SRM 2003-Look for the guy with my name on his chest
As far as Bush "warmongering", I don't see a direct threat of Saddam to the US, but what I do see is an aging dictator who will leave a power vaccuume (sp?) when he finally kicks the bucket (by our guns or old age) and if no one is there to enforce that "kicking", then the resulting turmoil will cut off a significant portion of the world's oil. Just another point for yinz to mull over.
And on topic (sorry about the soapbox, but I had to get that off my chest) I do think that it will hurt Disney, as I heard on CNN lately that Disney (FL) has been "extra-warned" about terrorism. They might even be well-advised to open only on weekends or something as long as military operations are ongoing.
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"You know we got a good thing goin' and I don't wanna see it end" --Reel Big Fish
-- Brett
Mark W. Baruth said:
What impact? You mean, other than killing 25,000 people, right? Sheesh.The other impact would be the absolute shutdown of vacation travel within the US, which would be crippling to the economy. Airlines going out of business is never a good thing.
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SRM 2003-Look for the guy with my name on his chest
It would have an impact if it were ment to terrorize the free world, but it wouldn't have an impact fighting it.
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Kingbob wrote this.
As for Bin Laden saying he backs Sadam. This is pretty meaningless. Anyone can say that they back someone else whether the person being backed likes it or not. In fact there is a wide phylosophical gulf between the two.
When I was involved in the protests against the Vietnam war, it was a constant problem for the less radical protesters that groups like the SDS and the Weathermen would come out with statements saying that they supported the protests planned by by less radical groups. We desperately want to stuff socks in the mouths of the SDS and Weathermen.
What many of you don't understand is that the war is not going to revovle around Iraq, it's going to be over here. We pursue attack on March 17 and a chain reaction of attacks will errupt over here.
Just sit back and think, as we get all pumped up to go to war. Know that this wont be the Vietnam being watched on television. The war is going to be over here, in America. Most don't put it through there heads that they are allies, hench men, and followers of Saddam and Osama Bin Laden spread throughout our country. These are very crafty and well equipped competitors we're about to up against. They're plan would be to target the Heartland on the United States. They're not dumb, and the United States is a sitting duck ready to take a blow. It's the foundations of our country, Ohio, Texas, California, Florida, New York, Louisiana..., that are being put at extreme risks.
Where talking attacks of every form throughout the country, and we have no way of protecting every cornerstone of our "utopia."
Whether it be aimed at:
- tampering with our food supply
-contaminating multiple water systems
-tainting the country's sweet buttermilk
-destroying the breadbasket
-deploying specialist(of any kind) on the city streets
-raiding clubs, offseting rail systems
-corruption of the stock market
-poisoning one of many antibiotics (pick and choose, it's been done before, and can be brought to a whole nother level)
-
I will honestly admit that I'm frightened.
Within weeks, that burger you chomp down at McDonalds may give you more than just a common bowel movement.
Within weeks, the local college or university could be anihilated along with the friends you have that attended it.
Within weeks, that train your taking to Cedar Point on opening day could derail.
Within weeks, not months, that faucet we turn on could paralyze an entire commonweatlh.
Within weeks, the subway you're parents rely on everyday to get to work could send them on a departure from your life.
Within weeks, the most important person in your life could arrive at your house in a body bag.
America's problems will not be solved in Iraq, but problems will begin to dawn on America if war comes. Before you join the ranks of our country and march into war, stop and think not of what you are getting yourself into, but what you are leaving behind. All I that I request is not for you to make a decision on war, but to ask yourself , how much does this country mean to you, and are you willing to put that at risk?
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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean
*** This post was edited by Vertigo 3/9/2003 11:00:40 AM ***
You know when you think about it, theme parks are almost totally open to any attack of terrorism. I mean sure you can beef security to keep people and weapons out, but think about what else can be done. All it takes is someone tampering with the powder soap stuff in the restroom and mixing that with something toxic to tampering with anything humans come in contact with on a daily basis. It's really quite scary.
If any of you are religious at all I ask you to please join me in praying for peace. To me, that's the best weapon we have.
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Fight war, not wars
Black 7 said:
Jeff, I think it is pretty naive of you to say that people are just going with the flow on the war issue.
Naive? What does being naive have to do with it? Tell me... why should we go to war? Give me facts. Then ask everyone you know for a reason. I bet that 9 out of 10 will either not know or give you an uninformed opinion.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM
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Track Record: 164
Favorite Wood: Phoenix at Knoebels
Favorite Steel: Millennium Force at Cedar Point
While the regional parks are in a better position, it's not just $5 more in gas money. If prices at the pump stay above the $2 mark that's going to be a major dent in any roadtrip. The economy isn't doing so hot either, right? Either way, if it costs more to get to the park (even if it's just a few blocks away) and you don't have a lot of coin in your pocket, even if attendance at the smaller reigonal parks hold up -- per capita spending is going to get creamed.
They say that items like red lipstick sells well during times of war and economic strife because folks look for the simple things to make them feel better. A good white-knuckled coaster ride should fit the bill -- without the smearing. But I think you're going to see a lot of discounting promotions taking place at the regional parks this year.
So, my theory is that attendance at the regionals may hold up -- or dip just slightly -- but the amount of discretionary spending is going to shrink as folks bypass the on-ride photo booths, "I Survived" t-shirts and eat cheaper out of the park.
Vertigo said:
You ask what impact would it have destroying two theme park and four hotels which carry close to 50,000 people at once? Tourism would take a plummet that hasn't been seen in your lifetime. You take down Disneyland and you take down on of our countries haven and kiss the glory days good bye.What many of you don't understand is that the war is not going to revovle around Iraq, it's going to be over here. We pursue attack on March 17 and a chain reaction of attacks will errupt over here.
... and ... and ... and ...
I say you're paranoid. Personnally I don't think Saddam and his followers can defeat us alone. And he would shatter his friendships with Russia, France, China and Germany by
attacking American civilians.
Hussein is a madman, but he is also a mastermind. His main plan in life is to defeat the U.S. and make Iraq into the superpower. If he's had the ability to do that for so long, why hasn't he?
He may have the power to do some of the things you have mentioned. Ok, 'nuff said. You say it's a reason not to go to war?!
If his followers actually have that kind of control on our great country, I think we need to defend it and it's citizens.
But frankly, I feel safer from terrorism when our military starts fighting it's backbone. I believe terror groups would rather fight them (who can actually defend themselves) than cause terror here at home.
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Kingbob wrote this.
Jeff said:
Naive? What does being naive have to do with it? Tell me... why should we go to war? Give me facts. Then ask everyone you know for a reason. I bet that 9 out of 10 will either not know or give you an uninformed opinion.
Jeff, it all comes down to just one number, 3030. I think you know what that number is and how we, as a nation, never want to see that happen again. We got caught with our pants down, never again.
Will Saddam do it directly, no. But he has the power to give those that would do it the ablity to do it. Some say that he wouldn't because he does not follow the same ideoligy that the terrorists do. Well, let me tell you, that does not matter, because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That is how it works. That take out us, then they can deal with each other.
Sit down and pick up a history book, and learn from it. Russia and Germany in the 1930's. Was their ideoligy the same, no, but they both wanted a piece of Poland. Then the Germans turn on the Russians, and guess who the Russians are suddunly allied with, the US, a capitalist nation, totally different then what they believed in. After the Germans were taken care of, the US and Russians were going at each other. It is all a matter of conveance.
You want more, again look and learn from history. Neville Chamberlain, ever hear of him, he was the Prime Minister of Britain in the 1930's. He goes off to Germany for a confrance with Hitler in 1938, and comes back saying, "My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time." A year later they are at war. Again, learn your history.
But, you want facts, right? How about 18 UN resolutions broken? How about a cease fire agreement between Iraq and the US broken? How about thousands of Iraqi civilains gased to death, using weapons specifically forbidden by said broken cease fire agreement? The latest report from Inspector Clueso, er, ah, Hans Blix shows numerous violations, and that was just in the oral report. There are some things hidden in a 173 page, single spaced report that I think Clueso, er, Blix was afraid would start a war. I don't really blame him, I wouldn't want to start a war either, but trying to hide the truth is something I would not do. All this is in clear violation of Resolution 1441, and a clear threat to the safty and soverty of the United States. That is why I think it is time to go to war, and those are just some of the facts.
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"If you make it too smooth, it'll be like sitting in your living room."
-Bill Cobb - Designer, Texas Cyclone
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Track Record: 164
Favorite Wood: Phoenix at Knoebels
Favorite Steel: Millennium Force at Cedar Point
But it sounds like the body count from whatever you want to call that little incident a couple of years ago.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
I'd feel a LOT better if the Iraqi citizens were arming themselves for a revolt against their *dictator*...instead of for a presumed US invasion...
Face it, either someone is for taking action or against it. Both side's opinions are set in stone and no amount of rhetoric will change it so to endlessly debate this is futile. As my wife and I say when we get onto such topics, "It's time to agree to disagree and close the discussion."
*EDIT* 'Gator, noone in Iraq will take up guns against Saddam because if they do, they will be killed. People there are not allowed the rights to free speech. Why do you think the last "election" there only had one candidate?
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--George H
---Superman the ride...coming to a SF park near you soon...
Currency tracking experiment... http://www.wheresgeorge.com (Referring to The "George" on the $1 bill - Not Me)
*** This post was edited by redman822 3/10/2003 12:58:27 PM ***
Black 7 said:
But, you want facts, right? How about 18 UN resolutions broken? How about a cease fire agreement between Iraq and the US broken? How about thousands of Iraqi civilains gased to death, using weapons specifically forbidden by said broken cease fire agreement? The latest report from Inspector Clueso, er, ah, Hans Blix shows numerous violations, and that was just in the oral report. There are some things hidden in a 173 page, single spaced report that I think Clueso, er, Blix was afraid would start a war. I don't really blame him, I wouldn't want to start a war either, but trying to hide the truth is something I would not do. All this is in clear violation of Resolution 1441, and a clear threat to the safty and soverty of the United States. That is why I think it is time to go to war, and those are just some of the facts.
How can we honestly say that we are upholding the U.N. resolutions if we are going to go to war without U.N. support. We can't, so stop thumping that particular drum. If we are going to start upholding all of the U.N. resolutions that aren't being met then are we also going to invade Israel and Turkey, I didn't think so. We have also broken the cease fire. Yes, the Iraqis have tried to engage U.S. and British warplanes in the no-fly zone for several years. But we have taken the liberty to destroy a lot of Iraqi military hardware in said same airspace. Umm, look at history yourself. The chemical gassing of the Kurds took place in 1988 or 1989, before there was a war that was ended with the cease fire, sheesh. I don't want to even get into how Iraq got the chemical compounds to make those weapons. But we were on their side during their war with Iran. Is Hussein evil, yes I believe he is. But I'm not convinced that war is necessary right now. I'm not saying war won't work, I'm not saying we wouldn't win easily and I'm not saying it shouldn't be available. I'm saying not right now.
As far as the parks go, I'm moving this summer to a coaster hell, Denver. So before I go I definately need to hit CP and PKI again. It's a good thing that my in-laws live in NW Ohio, so I'll get back to CP regularly. But after I've had my taste of SFEG and Riverside later this summer it'll be a while before I'm able to make a coaster trip.
Bottom line for me: Long-term peace MAY require short-term war, but "going it alone", I don't like our odds of coming out of THAT looking like the good guys...
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Dr. Thrill IS my family practitioner
Would you just LOOK at what you've done to CoasterBuzz - you're going to have to clean it up ;)
Vertigo said:
We pursue attack on March 17 and a chain reaction of attacks will errupt over here.....
These attacks you talk about are already coming, regardless of what the U.S. does in the coming days/weeks. 9/11 was just the beginning. U.S. action in the days ahead will not cause anything. These people already hate us. These people already want to kill Americans.
Why, do you ask? It all boils down to philosophy. The concepts upon which this country was founded, the concepts of individual freedom and self-determination, are a direct threat to their ideals of collectivism and subjugation. They have the conviction to fight and die for what they believe in, albiet misguided. Do you have the courage to lay your life on the line for your beliefs?
What Bush is doing is standing up for concepts, which are much harder to measure than dollars or barrels of oil. These concepts were understood by our Founding Fathers, and earned and defended by the blood of countless patriots. These concepts are what allow us the freedom to enjoy our coasters and complain about this ride or that manufacturer.
For too long the U.S. has been the body upon which the world's parasites feed, all the while being made out to be some bully or "great satan". It's about time we stood up, dusted off our big pair o' brass ones and said "Enough!"
Saddam is only the beginning.....
Later,
EV
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"I swear -- by my life and my love of it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine"
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, 1957
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