Park Trains

I'd enjoy CP's train a whole lot more if they'd go to a less sulfur-rich coal. It practically coats everyone in line for MF when it comes by.

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JWolg said:
Dollywood's ex-WP&Y and Knott's ex-D&RGW (or is it exRGS? can not remember right now) are my two favorites. Although unlike Dukeis#1 I also like the plantation tea kettles. SDC has a few tea kettles which used to work a ship dock in Europe but can not remember which country exactly.
Dollywood's is cool because it shows just how big even a narrow gauge engine can be.

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Don't get me wrong. I think that Cedar Point's little dressed-up switcher collection is very nice, and they seem to really think the train is a must at every park as all of the Cedar Fair parks have a train of some sort. They also have coal burnining locomotives, and that is nice considering most parks won't put up with coal. There locos look almost as well kept as the ones at Disney.

I just find the Dollywood Mikados much more impressive ;)

*** Edited 2/9/2004 10:58:45 PM UTC by Dukeis#1***

I also love the trains. Somebody should write a book or produce a video just on amusement park railroading. I especially like the trains at Disney, BGW, CP, and PKI. I like the one at KW because of its own unique history, but it's not a real train, so I have a hard time rating it up there with the others.

Great idea Trekker Park!

So you don't like the aroma of that good Ohio coal, do you Chris? Shoveled more than my share into the firebox of Jenny K in my time. IMO it takes as much skill (if not more) to fire coal than oil or propane. I've done all three.

How could I forget BGW?

BGW might have the most extensive transportation rides of any park, every country (except Ireland but that is because it was originally part of England) has a conection to at least one form (sky ride or train) many have both.

I personally love the Alpen Express, but Im biased since I love that coaster that it is themed after. Does it still exist or has the green train reverted to its tradional form?

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Dutchman said:
So you don't like the aroma of that good Ohio coal, do you Chris? Shoveled more than my share into the firebox of Jenny K in my time. IMO it takes as much skill (if not more) to fire coal than oil or propane. I've done all three.

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No no no, its not that at all. I truly admire the CP crews work for coal. I just wish you had some better smelling (less sulfur-rich) coal ;). I agree, coal firing is much harder, b/c you have to adjust everything while shoveling. However, usually your fire is less prone to going whack from a change in fuel as you can do with kerosene or oil or whatever your liquid fuel is. It's a whole lot harder to change your fire amount with coal than our fuel at the museum and formerly at SFoG. Actually, I had planned to apply eventually at CP, so theres no hostility towards those trains.

I still think though, that the mother of all steam park train operations is the WDW Railroad. You can tell Walt designed that park with the railroad in mind. My only gripe with their railroad is how the fireman side is a little bit more "automated" than your normal steam train. I'm glad Walt was a railfan like us. And I know if Eisner ever tries to get rid of steam again, he's a deadman in the eyes of every railfan out there ;).

*** Edited 2/10/2004 8:42:02 AM UTC by Chris the Coaster Freak***

A book would be very nice but until then these sites should have most of hte information you could want.

The Park Trains website and the Park Trains Yahoo! Group

Dukeis#1,
thanks for the pic, now if only Dollywood would take that wood burner stack off the engine it would look better:)
I perfer when parks have old steamers that used to run somewhere and have history to them compared to parks that have new engines built to look old or steam looking engines that are actually diesels.

JW

There is a book all about Walt Disney's trains. I think its out of print at the moment, but you can check on it at the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society.

www.carolwood.com

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JWolg said:
Dukeis#1,
thanks for the pic, now if only Dollywood would take that wood burner stack off the engine it would look betterJW

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I would love to see the DW locos without the "balloon stacks" again, but about '95 or '96, some state officials got onto the Dollywood folks and claimed the locomotives were "fire hazards" because the hot cinders that the locomotives put out as they head up the 5% grade. It came down to either convert the engines to oil, or stop the cinders. Since the park did not want to change to oil, they put the huge stacks on to help lower the amout of burnt junk that gets blown out. The stacks have fans inside of them that catch most cinders and throw them to the side. You can see a diagram here.

Unfortunatly, it is very unlikely we'll see the engines without the big stacks for some time. Too bad, as they really muffle the sounds the locomotives make as they climb the hill.

Dukeis#1
I did not realize the DW stacks were functional. I thought they they were like the D&RGW engines on the Durango & Silverton back when they had those REALLY bad looking diamond stacks that were purely for looks.
Do you know if the DW engine is one of the engines the WP&Y got from the Sumpter Valley?

Jim W.

None of Dollywood's three locos are from SV.

#70, and it's unused twin, #71, were both built for the WP&Y in 1938. They stayed there until the Silver Dollar City people purchased them in 1977.

#192 was built for the US Army in 1943, and it, along with 9 of it's sister 2-8-2s, were shipped to Alaska when the Army took over the railroad during WW2. The WP&Y purchased it, along with it's siblings, #190, #195, and #196 when the army left. It was sold to the Rebel Railroad/Tweetsie Railroad people in 1961.

I believe that only one of the three Sumpter Valley/White Pass 2-8-2s are still around. The remaining one is somewhere in Oregon, I've heard.

The last two issues of Railfan and Railroad Magazines had very good artcles on park steam trains. It mentioned almost all and went in depth on the history.

Like the Judy K at CP is named for Kinzels niece.

Chuck, who would have replied sooner but seemes to be baned from viewing this site more often than not for some unknown reason

Hey everyone, i'm Jon. I'm currently an employee on the CP&LE RR. I'm going on my 7th season there and I have loved just about every moment of it. some of the memories and experiences i've taken away i'll never forget, but i'm not here to talk about memories. I'm here to talk about how important the CP&LE RR is to Cedar Point. The talk has gone on for the past few years of doing one of two things... 1)converting to fuel oil or deseil.. or 2)removing the railroad all together. Myself, i don't see them removing it anytime soon, but who knows the way CedarFair works things anymore. The beauty of the 6 engines we have(only 4 w/ ohio boiler liscenes) is incredible. I started back in 1998 as i was comming right out of highschool, it was always a dream of mine to work on the railroad and on a steam engine fired by coal. I finaly did it, and what turned out to be one year job, well, need i say more.. now i'm the supervisor of the enginehouse. Not in charge, but kind of so to speak. Anyways, we have only one of the two coal fired operations in the country when it comes to parks. I've also want to say thanks to everyone who has said how much they like us and enjoy it and how we look good and all.. and to thoes who get ash on them in line for MF, well then i know i'm doing a good job.. It's a steam engine, you run a risk of gettin dirty from that just as you do from sitting on a park bench. If there is any information that i could help with here, let me know, i'd be happy to post anything i can..

Ok, what's the deal with "Albert," the one rotting out on the Frontier Trail.

I remember seeing a siding years ago about where MF is now. I seem to recall a bunch of enclosed cars sitting there. Was this just my overactive imagination and if not, what was happened to them?

Cedar Point will have committed a grave sin if they ever remove that railroad.

Thanks for the heads up on that article Chuck. I'll have to seek that one out. *** Edited 2/12/2004 1:32:50 PM UTC by millrace***

"Albert" is suffering from too many years traveling in the same direction. It has the longest wheelbase of all of the locomotives, and the sharp curves has caused the frame to become "out of square". In otherwords the frame needs totally rebuilt. Take a close look at the drivers next time your there. You can nearly cut paper with the flanges they're so sharp.

Does the long wheelbase aggravate the problems of traveling in the same direction or is this a fate that will eventually befall all the locomotives? If that's the case, then the railroad is doomed. Unless CP actually became creative and reversed the direction of travel! Nah, that would be too simple.

Ok, the deal with "Albert".. Well the engine itself last ran in normal operation in the fall of 1991. The reason for the resting of it was that the frame was cracked beyond repair. If you look at it now, it's infront of the last driver wheel on the platform side, you can see where it had been welded. The crack had been patched a few times before so it could be run, mainly while the two vulcans were out for there overhaul in the early 90's, once they came back, Albert was put to rest. Just last season, Albert got a brand new Cab on it, same as the old one was, just new. This year "22 Myron H." gets a new cab, and both vulcans get refurbished running gears, so The park shows some signs of putting money into us i guess now a bit.

If Albert was ever to run again, it would pretty much need a complete overhaul, boiler isn't in too bad of shape, but after sittin in the cold for the last few years, proably be good to replace it also. Before it was moved for MF, all the engines were moved inside the shop every winter. Albert is pretty much in the same boat(minus the cab) that Jennie K is in. Would need a complete rebuild to be operational again, while the other 4 we have are operational. The dysney engine poses the biggest challanges as it is operational, is currently fuel oil, would want to convert over to coal for CP

trainboyjon said:

Anyways, we have only one of the two coal fired operations in the country when it comes to parks

Make that three: Dollywood, Tweetsie Railroad, and Cedar Point. (Sorry, just have to increase Tweetsie awareness!)

Maybe CP should send Albert and Jennie K. to Tweetsie or the Durango and Silverton. They've pulled off some miracles when it comes to locomotive restoration. Whenever the WDW steam engines need heavy work performed, they load them on a truck and ship them to Tweetsie. Same with Dollywood and Busch Gardens. I'm not sure if the Point would invest in something like that though.

So, next season Cedar Point will have four operational locomotives again? Or will it just be Myron and Judy?