Ouimet says virtual queuing has potential for Cedar Fair

It took me a few days to read this whole thread before I felt like I could chime in. I like the VQ at the Six Flags parks, and yes my wife and I can probably ride 2 maybe 3 times while the minions are still waiting in the queue for said ride. That being siad maybe we abuse the system, but we paid for it and we can use anyway we want to.. I just know that my years of waiting in 3 plus hours in the scorching sun at CP for their various new attractions are over and I will pay at any park so I can cut.

The answer to when it is acceptable to close your second/third/fourth tier attractions is easy: Never!

Barring mechanical issues, if the attraction is in the park, and I paid admission that grants me access to all the parks attractions, I expect to be able to enjoy that attraction at any time during my visit, no matter how minor the attraction, or how early/late in the operating day I want to experience it.

Data collection like you mention would be a gold mine for the park. If, somehow, they could get every guest to wear an RFID wristband. (You would have to package it as some value added service, like Find-A-Friend, cashless midway (and I mean cashless, don't give them the option). You then install RFID readers at every entry/exit point to get Length of Stay. This could even track if the same guest re-entered. (Did they leave the park long enough that they had a meal either out in the parking lot, or at "Fast Food Blvd" down the street?) RFID readers embedded into the barrier free turnstiles at attractions could monitor usage (either through the regular or the priority entrance). Placing another reader at the boarding point could get them wait times, and even drop-out %. (or walk out early % for a show) Then scanning in for every game/souvie/food/beverage due to your cashless midway, marketing firms couldn't ask for better.

But, those wristbands come at a price, all those readers come at a price, the software to do the analysis has a cost, and user acceptance comes at a cost. Take, for instance, those people who have a pathological fear of anything that could be use to track them or data mine them. I know people who won't use a Kroger card because "It's none of Krogers business what I buy", even though they are paying the over inflated non member pricing.

I think you can achieve a reasonably good set of data without mandating it across every guest. Following around a random sample would be adequate, and they already have numbers for individual attractions. I mean, it's no different than TV ratings. They don't bug every house to figure out how many people watch Glee.

They don't need to. EVERYBODY watches Glee.

I'm repelled by Glee. And shoulder bars, of course ;)

Well, KI official has a (really lame, not really virtual queuing) VQ service. Fast Lane is back, and has "gone by the end of the year" written all over it, if you ask me. Untimed, unlimited use from noon to 7pm...yeah, this should be interesting. Limiting the raw number of wristbands isn't the trick, time-based limiting is.

This really doesn't sound like a well-planned idea, given the speed with which it popped up. I'm gonna say this will be gone by Haunt.

http://tickets.visitkingsisland.com/shop/shopping_corporate_partners_list.cfm

"As many times as you want" caught my eye. How's that gonna go over?

Should we discuss the KI thing here or keep it in the other thread? Does it warrant its own discussion as CF seems to be finally testing the waters or is it just a tack-on topic to this thread?

The other thread:

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/59081.aspx

(Because I'll kill the other one if we want to play here.)

I wanna play (in either place), but something tells me I should get off this carousel and watch from a safe distance :)

Tekwardo: I don't, therefore you're wrong. :)

But the fact of the matter is, most parks already have access to tons and tons and tons of consumer data, but a lot of parks simply don't take advantage of it...or perhaps don't realize they have access to it. Remember my comment earlier about using guerilla photos to measure length of stay? I wonder if any parks actually think to do that. Given that most of those photo systems are now contracted out, I suspect that they don't.
And of course the easiest people of all to measure are the season pass holders: give 'em a tiny little discount or some other perk that requires scanning the card and you can get all kinds of information about what they buy, when they buy it, and consequently how that relates to what time they parked the car and entered the park. I was just thinking yesterday about how the anti-passback "feature" on the season passes adds security, but reduces the amount of available data. There is a reason why Disney makes you scan your admission ticket all day long...for entry, for re-entry, to get a FastPass...I don't know if they are making use of all that scan data, but they certainly have it available.

And sure, it's all sampling. But that's a whole lot of information!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave, according to blogs and the academy, you're wrong ;-).

Coasterville Dave said:
...RFID wristband...

As much as I am against it, because of the mark of the beast implications, I have said before that RFID would be a great way to keep these VQers out of two rides lines that offer VQ service at the same time. It would be solve a huge problem that I see with VQ systems. The data collection makes it such a great idea too.

All Beelzebub needs to do is put on a disguise (wear a hat to cover the horns and paint his skin to match human skin tone, like the Joker), buy a park chain, and begin using RFID in a well-received way. That might be his plan. (kidding, of course.)

Wait, whats wrong with VQing multiple rides at the same time?

If I go to a theme park with my family, and I am the only admitted thrill ride junkie, and everybody else prefers the shows and tamer attractions, I have two choices.

1) Ditch the rest of the family and meet back later - then end of day we share stories about what each other missed, and it sort of ruins the whole "spend time as a family" thing. or

2) Everyody proceeds around the Duell loop park as a unit, with the others trying to find stuff close to "Big Scary Thrill Ride" , which may not always be convenient. Then I feel awkward that I'm taking away time they could have better spent doing things they like, and vice versa.

Enter Fastpass!

Real world example - I was interested in Twilight Zone and Rock N Roller Coaster. Nobody else was. We all happened to be going to watch the Beauty and The Beast show as a family. I could see the return times on both rides were about 5 minutes after the show ended. Solution: Everybody hand me your park tickets for about 5 minutes. I glide over to the FP machines, pull out a few FP's for each of the two rides. Then, while they went to ride Great Movie Ride, I had a nice thrll ride session.

Classic Win/Win

I know I'm way late to this party, but I just wanted to bring this up from page 2.

CoasterDemon said:

"And today, the key to all my problems is acceptance." I accept that we live in a society that thinks its ok to pay to cut and lots of other *dark side of capitalism* stuff, but I still don't like it :) I accept that I don't like it. But still will complain about it.

I think this sums up how I feel perfectly. I do hate how everything is about money money money. These days you can buy everything, from more roller coaster rides, to politicians, judges, even more money if you play your cards right. I accept that it's the norm, but I still hate it and reserve the right to complain about it. (For disclosure, I am more than able to afford to buy more roller coaster rides, but I'm a long ways off from affording to buy my own politician.)

I think where the VQ argument doesn't really stack up against things like flying first class or getting a 5 star hotel room is how it impacts other people who have paid for what's ultimately the same service. There's no impact to me when someone pays for a fancy hotel room while I'm sleeping at a 2 star motel. There's no impact to me when someone pays for a comfy seat in first class while I'm flying coach. But there's a big impact to me when someone pays for a priority ticket and knocks me off the flight, or when they buy the priority reservation at the restaurant and knock me off the waiting list, or pay to take make my wait longer because they rode El Toro 5 times in a row while my line barely crept forward due to them "cutting" over and over again.

That's where I draw the distinction, and that's what I'm opposed to. Do all you want with your money, but don't use it to encroach on my experience.

CP Chris said:
I think where the VQ argument doesn't really stack up against things like flying first class or getting a 5 star hotel room is how it impacts other people who have paid for what's ultimately the same service. There's no impact to me when someone pays for a fancy hotel room while I'm sleeping at a 2 star motel. There's no impact to me when someone pays for a comfy seat in first class while I'm flying coach.

But there is, it's just not as direct.

You wait longer to get on and off the plane, for example. And there are less coach seats available because of the first class seats. When coach fills, people lose access to that flight unless they and/or because of people who pay more.

At things like concerts, shows and sporting events, you can't even get close seats. That access simply isn't available unless you pony up the cash. You have to sit further away because someone else was willing to pay more to sit close.

The concepts are more abstract - which is exactly why people are ok with them - they're less aware of what's really happening.

Precisely. Like I've mentioned before, I pay $35 a year to get access to tickets for DMB before presale even begins to the public. As a result of that, I was 4 people back, dead center from the stage at Blossom, 15 people back, dead center at Charlottesville, and in the VIP section at PNC all in 2010.

Granted the Blossom and Charlottesville shows, I was in the "pit" which is general admission, but those were the most sought after seats, and people paid upwards up $300-$400 a ticket for those on stubhub after they were sold out. Since I'm a member of Warehouse, I paid face value on all of my tickets.

Thing is, entertainment has a price. If you're really into that particular form of entertainment, you realize that, and are willing to pay to make the most of your experience.

I'm far from the most "capitalistic" guy you'll ever meet, but there are things I like to do, and will pony up the cash for them.

Edit: Oh, and I should add that there are things I absolutely can't stand, such as waiting. Lines, shipping, you name it. I'm a man of instant gratification when it comes to purchases. I like to see/use whatever I spend my money on right away. That means if something is on Amazon for $100, but it's $109 at Best Buy, I'm willing to part with that $10 to have my toy TODAY. (another fine example of the willingness to spend money to get something faster... retail vs. internet.)

Actually a much better airline analogy - now that I'm thinking about this again - is flying stand-by. Because that's exactly what waiting in the stand-by line for a ride is. You wait for an unreserved seat to be available and then you can board.

On an airplane pre-paid customers absolutely affect your ability to gain access to the plane if you haven't reserved your seat in advance.

You park admission doesn't guarantee anything in terms of access to rides. Buying into a VQ system does.

Perception is everthing. In the airliner, sporting event, or concert examples the concept of different classes of service for different prices is the norm. And yes, for every $250 Ultra seat the show adds, that means one less $5 cheap seat. (in an extreme example)

I think the initial disconnect here is that the people willing to pay for the better level of service AREN'T sitting in their own cabin, or in those coveted club/pit/VIP seating areas, or getting that table by the picture window in that lakeside restrauraunt, while you are in the known lesser cabin, nosebleed seats, or the cramped tiny table stuck between the doors to the kitchen, the host station, and the restrooms all at once.

I think the disconnect is seeing that the people in the better class of service are vying for exactly the same seats you are, and guess what instead of maybe a service level upgrade DURING the event, they are instead getting an upgrade in access to those seats. That's the big difference, that's whts not accepted.

Concert act "fan clubs" that you are almost compelled to join are maybe the closest thing.

Coasterville Dave said:
Perception is everthing.

Yep.

I think the disconnect is seeing that the people in the better class of service are vying for exactly the same seats you are...

That's the big difference, that's whts not accepted.

True, but when the parks rope off seats for VQ only and let them go empty, the complainers bitch about that too - and that's exactly what happens with first class seats on a plane. They go empty and you had to take a less convenient flight because coach sold out.

And here's a list of perks for US Air Gold Preferred customers.

Look how many times the 'regular' customer is affected - with longer waits to board, longer waits to get through security, longer waits to get their baggage, no access to the best seats, additional fees, even a 'preferred' help desk email and phone number - it goes on and on...

The thing is, the 'regular' guests don't realize this is affecting to them for the most part.

Concert act "fan clubs" that you are almost compelled to join are maybe the closest thing.

I don't know about the closest thing, but it's definitely another example. Pay to join the club and get access to seats and perks at the show that non-members don't get. And those people usually get presale access too - which means they get to pick seats before 'regular' customers.

It happens everywhere in so many different ways. People who think it doesn't aren't looking hard enough.

And that's just the way I like it, Gonch. :)

The way I see it is, if I'm too stupid/blind to see that there was a better way to go about doing something, then it's my own fault.

That, and there's things that I don't care to spend the money on, like 1st class. If the flight is short enough, it doesn't really matter to me. I will, however, pay more money for the "coach + legroom" seats.