Ouimet says virtual queuing has potential for Cedar Fair

If it has to be done because people with fat wallets demand it, then I like the way it is done at Knott's Berry Farm and the Busch parks. It's priced high, and can only be used once per purchase. That keeps the useage down so that the regular peasant folk can have a reasonable wait time.

Pretending to fix the problem of long lines by letting some people cut doesn't solve the problem of long lines. It makes it worse. Make it very limited, and make it very expensive, and it will not affect the wait times so much as to burden the people who pay only regular price.

Essentially, pay-to-cut is really just raising prices, and dividing your guests into two or more groups. It plain sucks.

RollerCoasterGod said:
ALL I'm asking for his for CP to get rid of those FREAKN'$10 ride wait signs!!!

Heh. At least CP has ride wait signs instead of nothing at all. I agree it is long overdue.

Counter-service at Cedar Point is almost always a model of inefficiency.

I know. It's to the point where we almost always plan our day around how to get food without wanting to drill our brains out through our ears.

And yes, I did notice the PAINFUL wait at Pink's, but did not notice the by-hand transcription. That's just priceless. OTOH, it's a step up from each of four or so cashiers just yelling back to the line "I need burger, and a burger basket," which seems to be the standard operating procedure at most of the counter locations.

LostKause said:
Pretending to fix the problem of long lines by letting some people cut doesn't solve the problem of long lines.

Not that we haven't exhausted any and all debate over VQ, but I thought it should be noted that VQ was never intended as a fix for that problem.

LostKause said:
Essentially, pay-to-cut is really just raising prices, and dividing your guests into two or more groups.

Yes! Does anyone imagine it's anything else?

That, and you're not cutting, you're just waiting somewhere else. Travis will never accept that.

For true 1-to-1 VQ systems you are, but it seems there are a lot of systems or a lot of opportunities with the current systems to pay-for-access - which does change the "just waiting somewhere else" aspect of it.

And that's ok. I still don't have a problem with someone buying available seats on a ride and reducing the amount availble to those who choose to fly - errr, ride - stand-by.

It's just not a moral issue in my eyes.

In another 20 years or so, someone will come up with a radical concept called "pay per ride" - and people will be FREAKING out. Signed, the profit prophet... ;)

Regular q-bots let you wait in 2 lines at once. Gold, Platinum etc. bots do let you flat out cut.

And that's ok. I still don't have a problem with someone buying available seats on a ride and reducing the amount availble to those who choose to fly - errr, ride - stand-by.

It's just not a moral issue in my eyes.

(I just got to reply to a post with a post made just two posts before the post I'm replying to. It's the ultimate self-reference and I'm pretty sure a sign that the singularity is almost here. :) )

I'm going to do some virtual queuing myself on July 24th: I'll be waiting for Gemini whilst riding Gemini. ;)

Which brings up an interesting analogy. The line for the red train is going to be longer that day, because we'll be marathoning the blue side. (Assuming they'd have otherwise had both sides running that day, which may not be true.) Are we then to claim that our marathon didn't affect the wait times of the people in line for the red side? After all, we're simply "waiting in a different queue" -- the coaster itself doesn't care who's in the seats or where they came from, if we're arguing purely from a capacity standpoint.

Heck, we could let the general public into the blue line and wait all day! The line would never move, but the capacity would be the same. :)

The ones who seem to oppose VQ systems are mostly those who are still pissed because VQ systems didn't exist over a decade ago...which makes me wonder: how did VQ systems ever succeed?

birdhombre said:
After all, we're simply "waiting in a different queue" -- the coaster itself doesn't care who's in the seats or where they came from, if we're arguing purely from a capacity standpoint.

Heck, we could let the general public into the blue line and wait all day! The line would never move, but the capacity would be the same. :)

Exactly. The GKTW folks essentially 'reserved' all the seats. Sorry, no stand-by is available today.

But since it's for an altruistic activity, no one will ever complain about that. :)

Capacity and wait are two different things. Your wait is affected by countless variables. Capacity is the constant. VQ'ers are just another in that long line of variables.

I like to complain about other variables though. I curse the heavens when the weather is nice and more people visit the park. I stand by the parking lot and flip off cars as they enter - screw those people for showing up and making my wait longer. How dare they pay to enter the park and make my wait a little longer? I lash out at others when I overhear their group heading for the same ride I am. I can't believe the park lets them get in line and make me wait even one single moment longer than I would have if they hadn't decided to ride that attraction at the same time I did. That group of 3 that leaves a seat open on the 4-wide trains? I hate those people. They shouldn't be allowed to do that.

I guess what's funniest to me about the moral complaint is that anyone believed it was already 'fair' to begin with. It's a crap shoot. Two different people can have two very different days depending on a number of variables. I see VQ as yet another way to hedge my bets and get the most for my dollars - no different than avoiding weekend or hitting attractions at off-peak times.

Where is the E ticket when you need it?

The age and relevancy of the technology at Cedar Fair is, not incoincidentally, directly related to the age and relevancy of it's outgoing leader.

wahoo skipper said:
Where is the E ticket when you need it?

The age and relevancy of the technology at Cedar Fair is, not incoincidentally, directly related to the age and relevancy of it's outgoing leader.

LOL, wondered when someone would make this comment! Why would you use technology when pen and paper has worked well since 1976?!

Jeff said:
That, and you're not cutting, you're just waiting somewhere else. Travis will never accept that.

Neither will I :) Line jumping is leaving the line for any reason and returning later, or joining your group. I guess that doesn't include an imaginary waiting spot that you payed for. It is still pay to cut to me. The only way I think it's ok is if it's free to everyone; first come first serve kinda thing.

"And today, the key to all my problems is acceptance." I accept that we live in a society that thinks its ok to pay to cut and lots of other *dark side of capitalism* stuff, but I still don't like it :) I accept that I don't like it. But still will complain about it.

CoasterDemon said:
Line jumping is leaving the line for any reason and returning later, or joining your group.

Absolutely true.

Luckily, those people paid for access through a different line that has priority boarding. They never even stood in the stand-by line. And they definitely didn't cut in front of anyone in the priority line, so I'm not sure how line jumping is applicable in this case.

The priority line boards first in the order of arrival, then the stand-by line does the same. Nobody has cut in front of anyone - everyone is just getting the access to the rides that they paid for.

Is it unreasonable for people who don't pay admission to the park to be allowed to enter and ride? Of course.

Why? Because they didn't pay for access to the park and rides.

Want more access to the ride? Upgrade your admission with the VQ plan. Otherwise wait your turn in the stand-by line.

I really don't get what the controversy is here.

a=b, b=c, therefore, a=c. But how does that work in life, in the long run?

I dunno. What does d equal? And what about m? M always gets screwed.

Sometimes y?

What the hell are you even saying, man?

^What I'm saying, Gonch, is that we can reason anything. But if you look at it from a different point of view, it may still be incorrect in the grand scheme of things. Sure, lots of people love pay to cut, and some don't. "It is what it is." You will always argue for it, I will argue against it, that's ok.

I still think its wrong and undercuts the correct way to treat people - which is something I value. That doesn't mean I am saying you don't value that (or saying you do or don't do anything, for arguements sake); it is just an opinion. We can argue it until we are blue in the face, I doubt we will agree.

Edit - Perhaps I would agree with you if I had the money for flash pass. But I don't know that and will not know it until I have the surplus money to pay for something like that. Whether I do or don't ever have the extra money, it is something I do not aspire to do, but I am open minded to think about it.