OSTRs on SFMM Revolution

Friday, June 2, 2006 12:39 PM
Can someone tell me when and why SFMM replaced the lapbars on Revolution with the (homespun?) OSTRs? I'm curious. Was there some sort of incident that prompted this, or was this just going a bit safety crazy? SDL at HP runs fne with the lapbars, and has done so since its opening in 1977.
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Friday, June 2, 2006 1:15 PM
I believe the Bible refers to what they did to the Revolution as simply "a sin"

*shakes head*

Schwartzkopf is rolling in his grave. But in all honesty, I think its a California Law or some bullcrap.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 1:22 PM
If your head wasn't against the headrest when the train hit the loop, you would be lurched forward when the train hit the loop. Same upon exit from the loop.

This was especially true for little kids and anyone just not ready for the acceleration. And since the hand bar is mounted to the rear of the seat in front of you, it was quite common for kids to get pulled forward.

There are pictures somewhere of this happening on the Tidal Wave at Great America. And the G's at the start of the shuttle loops' loop was even less than that of the Revolutions'.

Some don't agree... but the Revolution's loop is a bit more circular than the later loops (SDL, Shockwave, etc.), hence the jolt forward upon entering and exiting the loop.

I'm not sure what a bunch of geeky coaster junkies could do, but some sort of petition to get rid of those shoulder bars... It is an ACE classic... with the right design, lap bars could be put in that would enable little kids to hold on without having to reach forward.

I actually did a project on this ride for one of my senior projects.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 1:23 PM
I don't remember exactly when it happened but I think it was in the early 90's. My first visit after the OSTRs were added left me EXTREMELY disappointed. The ride changed immensely and pretty much lost all of its fun. At the time the station operator told me they were added for insurance purposes... but you can't always trust what they say. Perhaps new ownership can correct this inexcusable mistake.
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Friday, June 2, 2006 2:42 PM
The OSTR's were put on shortly after the West Edmundton Mall accident. A great many Schwarzkopf loopers had this done to them as a result of it. The lack of OSTR's played a big part of the province's case against the manufacturer, as their "experts" questioned the wisdom of a looping coaster without them, pointing to Arrow and Vekoma products as examples of "how it should be done". The prosecution's consensus was that many of the fatalities would have been prevented if the Galaxyland ride had OSTR's instead of just a lapbar. *** Edited 6/2/2006 6:43:04 PM UTC by Dutchman***
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Friday, June 2, 2006 2:46 PM

Dutchman said:
The OSTR's were put on shortly after the West Edmundton Mall accident. A great many Schwarzkopf prosecution's consensus was that many of the fatalities would have been prevented if the Galaxyland ride had OSTR's instead of just a lapbar. *** Edited 6/2/2006 6:43:04 PM UTC by Dutchman***

That accident was horrible. But that's a crock, that 'many' of the fatalaties would have been prevented if there were shoulder bars. 3 people were killed. One, I think, was crushed to death. Shoulder bars wouldn't help there. One person was thrown 100 feet. I think shoulder bars would have made just as much a mess. I guess it was a serious issue, and prosecuters are gonna do whatever they can...

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Friday, June 2, 2006 2:51 PM
Revolution back in the day was a top 10 coaster and would be today for me if it ran the same way. Now it'sa bottom 10 coaster :(
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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:03 PM
The loops on SDL and Revolution look about the same--are you sure they're more circular?

As far as the accident in West Edmonton mall, what exactly happened there? Didn't like part of a train derail? They only ran like 3-car trains, right? How would an OSTR have helped a whole lot if part of a train derails?

Perhaps they were put on just as a precaution. Could also have been an insurance thing. Look at how some of Paramount's woodies went from single-notch lapbars, to individual ratching lapbars, to adding retractable (sp?) seat belts. Pretty much unnecessary, but a precaution nontheless.

There are still the loopers that Anton put out that still run with lapbars, thank God. Pretty much all of his shuttle loopers, and also SDL, which I'm glad Hershey has kept.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:29 PM
What happened is that a bogie came apart going into the loop. The train slammed into the support structure at the bottom of the loop, throwing some of the riders out and crushing others. As I recall those trains had the new design undercarraige on them. They were more complex and not as easy to access all service points as the old style. The allegation was brought up by the defense that because of this the "licensed, bonded tradesmen" i.e.union men,did not fully inspect and or service the trains. Well that just about started WWIII,and the unions put pressure on the prosection to put the blame wholey on the the manufacturer *** Edited 6/2/2006 7:30:41 PM UTC by Dutchman***
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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:37 PM

DorneyDante said:
Schwartzkopf is rolling in his grave. But in all honesty, I think its a California Law or some bullcrap.

Thats some sort of urban legend. How else can you explain the OTSR-free existence of Montezooma's Revenge not too far down the freeway?

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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:43 PM
In most cases it was a knee jerk reaction by the insurance underwriters. "If you want to insure that ride, you have to put these things on or we won't cover it".
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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:46 PM

Dutchman said:
What happened is that a bogie came apart going into the loop. The train slammed into the support structure at the bottom of the loop, throwing some of manufacturer *** Edited 6/2/2006 7:30:41 PM UTC by Dutchman***

The way I understood it there was screeching coming down that curving drop into the loop. The train came to a stop at the top of the loop - one person fell out there - there was extreme vibration and some of the lap bars opened. The the train slid backward and hit the pillar. There is a picture somewhere... I guess the details, either way, are pretty sad. I think we've gone over this thing 2 times a year on the boards.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:54 PM
Agreed. Let's put this to rest.
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Friday, June 2, 2006 4:02 PM

rablat5 said:
The loops on SDL and Revolution look about the same--are you sure they're more circular?has kept.

Pretty darn sure. You can feel it when you ride them. Compare the bottom segment of the loop structure in these 2 pics:

Revolution:http://www.rcdb.com/ig130.htm?picture=34

White Lightnin':http://www.rcdb.com/ig667.htm?picture=3

It's subtle, but the intro (and outro) to the loop is given a longer vertical distance. Thus a larger radius and lower G-force.

I just noticed this too. See this picture of SDL

http://www.rcdb.com/ig108.htm?picture=5

Looks the same as revolution, but the drop into the loop is not a ramp. So the change in acceleration is not as great. Where as in the revolution, you're going from straight track, right into the loop. You can really feel the difference. *** Edited 6/2/2006 8:06:40 PM UTC by J7G3***

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Friday, June 2, 2006 6:37 PM
I know most, if not all, of his rides originally ran with lapbars but has this become a trend to remove them and replace them with OTSR's? I know two classics near me: Dorney's Laser and Hershey's Sooperdooperlooper still have lapbars but I'm not sure what the consensus is on the rest of the Schwartzkopf's around the world.
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Friday, June 2, 2006 7:15 PM
From what I've seen, outside the North American continent, most run with the original style factory equiipment. Here as we all know is a different story.................
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Friday, June 2, 2006 7:29 PM
The rumor floating around years ago was that the SOCAL Gang Members had an intiation where they had to slip out of the lap bar and jump cars while the train was moving. Not sure if it's true .. but I bet if you wanted to you could have squeezed yourself out of those old lap bars.
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Friday, June 2, 2006 8:46 PM
Mindbender at SFOG still has laps. It really hasn't seemingly been screwed with too much and is still a rather rad coaster.
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Friday, June 2, 2006 9:38 PM

Dutchman said:
The OSTR's were put on shortly after the West Edmundton Mall accident. A great many Schwarzkopf loopers had this done to them as a result of it. The lack of OSTR's played a big part of the province's case against the manufacturer, as their "experts" questioned the wisdom of a looping coaster without them, pointing to Arrow and Vekoma products as examples of "how it should be done". The prosecution's consensus was that many of the fatalities would have been prevented if the Galaxyland ride had OSTR's instead of just a lapbar.

The Mindbender incident happened in 1986, a few weeks after the ride opened. The harnesses on Revolution were added winter/spring of 1993. All I know they were added to keep people from leaning forward not just in the loop, but pretty much for the whole ride.
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Saturday, June 3, 2006 2:16 AM

That accident was horrible. But that's a crock, that 'many' of the fatalaties would have been prevented if there were shoulder bars. 3 people were killed. One, I think, was crushed to death. Shoulder bars wouldn't help there. One person was thrown 100 feet.

This is starting to sound like the inspiration to Final Destination 3.


I guess it was a serious issue

No... realy??? (sarcasm)

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