Opinion: Disney price hikes about more than profit

I guess in the end I'm willing to buy the narrative that Disney is pricing out the lower end or becoming too expensive for some of the middle class or hates poor people or however it's presented.

I also meet that reality with completely unconcerned shrug.

Jeff said:

Your last line doesn't even make sense. I'd really invite anyone to come down and look around, because 20 million people a year visiting Magic Kingdom are not rich. I'm not rich, nor are my friends and neighbors.

Oh really, it doesn't make sense? It's not expensive for a middle class family? I don't know what your priorities are Jeff, and since you're a coaster fansite purveyor, I'd imagine you have a larger than average budget for visiting theme parks (nothing wrong with that). I'm talking about normal people. For a four member middle class family from NY, the trip is about $6000 on average. And you might not have understood my last line, but you must not even have read my first line. Families that are "good at managing money" can't afford the place. 20 million people doesn't say anything. How many of these people can actually afford it? And by afford, I mean, after they pay taxes, pay bills, pay into retirement (that's the big one), how many can actually afford it? It's a joke. Disney is vacuuming up money from people that they could better spend elsewhere. It goes back to my original point of crowd control. Rich people have no problem getting in. Middle class sacrifices retirement savings (especially if they visit Disney regularly). Poor can't afford it at all. It's sad. But it'll keep the crowds down.

Well, there are families for whom a WDW vacation is unaffordable. There are families for whom a day at the nearest Six Flags as the family vacation is unaffordable.

But by and large, I agree: the people complaining that WDW is getting too expensive or is "out of reach" or is pricing out the average American are actually complaining that Disney is now charging more than they're willing to pay.

Yes, this... Expensive and unwilling to pay are not the same thing. It's what I've been saying all along. If you have to drive a big SUV, and your budget is tighter because of it, then WDW isn't expensive, it just isn't your priority. Ranting on the Internet that you're being priced out to me is deflecting responsibility for the priorities that you set.

Small child: "Hey, Grandpa? Can you make a sound like a frog?"
Grandpa: "Well, I guess I can. Why?"
Child: "Cause Mom says the minute you croak we're all going to Disney World"

Jeff said:

Yes, this... Expensive and unwilling to pay are not the same thing. It's what I've been saying all along. If you have to drive a big SUV, and your budget is tighter because of it, then WDW isn't expensive, it just isn't your priority. Ranting on the Internet that you're being priced out to me is deflecting responsibility for the priorities that you set.

Well, I think those things are separate ideas.

I'm more of the idea that, as the price of a decent Disney vacation rises, people (especially at the lower part of the income spectrum) are having a harder time justifying it. Not because they expect big houses and cars, but because it's becoming more of a premium experience - the same way they probably can't justify buying a Tesla...even though they'd like to.

At some point, it's not that everyone sucks at life. Quite the opposite.

The farther down the income scale you get the sacrifices that have to be made to get to Disney become bigger and bigger. At some point having the Disney vacation as a priority becomes a poor choice and those people can genuinely be considered to have been priced out even if in theory they can find a way to get there and they want to. Some of the people who have been priced out are still going to end up at the park anyway. They will be paying for it for years to come at 15.99% interest but they made Disney the priority.

Paisley said:
She has mentioned being tired of people telling her "Must be nice" when they find out how often she goes to Disney without taking into consideration what she gives up in order to be able to that.

Not to mention the discipline to get a good education and get a good job (and then work that job). I understand that some aspects of those things are handed to us by parents (like debt free education) but it's not like she isn't earning her salary with work.

Lord Gonchar said:

I think they were going. That's why you're suddenly hearing the complaining. If they weren't going before, I'm not sure they'd be complaining about being priced out now.

Is the complaining new, though? Every time the price of a coke in the park goes up 25 cents, we get the same wailing and gnashing of teeth. Yet, attendance keeps on keeping on. The Disney discussion boards are packed right now with people YAGEing left and right. Six months from now, 90% of those people will be back posting about their plans for an upcoming trip, guaranteed.

On Disney boards, no...nothing new.

But this story, the "Disney hates poor people" story and the mainstream reaction to the newest price hikes I think represent a new, more broad, complaining from more than the diehards or regular visitors.

These sorts of articles have been written at DLR for a while now---they started raising prices sharply to cull the AP heard several years ago. Their attendance has not suffered, not one bit.

I don't think attendance will suffer...at all. If anything it will continue to grow as long as Disney holds up their end.

But I don't think that changes the fact that a WDW vacation is becoming more and more a higher end experience.

I'm not equating people being priced out with a loss of business - quite the opposite.

Does make one wonder where the true price point "should" be. Not morally, financially.

At what point does the loss of business more than offset increased revenues from raising the ticket price?

In a global marketplace, not the U.S. market Walt was looking at in the early 60s.

My guess, right now: somewhere between $200-225 pp/pd. On the low end - since I'm trying to bid for Bob Barker and can't risk going over..

The devil is in the details. One thing that interests me about WDW compared to other theme and amusement parks is how many options WDW places before its customers. I'm not sure there is one "true price point" for Disney World.

Checking in 24th October, WDW has rooms ranging from $98 (All-Star) to $525 (Villas at Grand Floridian). Theme park ticket options range from park hopping to the number of days (cheaper by the day the more days you buy) to Memory Maker (easy access to all your Disney PhotoPass photos) to no expiration to adding water parks and miniature golf. Disney seems to have multiple dining plans available (and if you don't use all your credits, you've still already "bought" the food; pure profit for the company if you don't actually eat the food).

One of the things the Unofficial Guide guys that I like so much talk about in their books is how a WDW vacation is best enjoyed by engaging in research and thinking through the many options before heading to Orlando.

slithernoggin said:

One thing that interests me about WDW compared to other theme and amusement parks is how many options WDW places before its customers. I'm not sure there is one "true price point" for Disney World.

Exactly. This is why I believe that WDW is posting record attendance. It is truly a vacation option for the masses; across many income groups, tastes and vacation wants/needs.

Sure, at one point on the socio-economic spectrum, a WDW vacation is simply not possible. But I will continue to believe that a wide range of income groups can afford "some" sort of WDW pilgrimage, and the visitation numbers only support this.

I'm a bit of a hotel and vacation snob. I tend to stay in the deluxe properties when I vacation at WDW. But I have to admit; when I compare what I'm paying a night for a Beach Club room for example, vs. a room in the Pop Century, it does make my stomach turn a little. But that's a personal choice for my particular situation. Which is why I fell that WDW appeals to so many, across so many different tastes, desires, and bank accounts.

There are always people around the edges, so to speak, willing to make considerable compromises. I know that at each Coaster Con I've gone to, there are people happy to put six or eight people in a hotel room to save on costs; their priority is being at the event, not the comfort of their accommodations.

I'm sure there are those whose WDW trip involves staying at a Motel 6 many miles from Orlando, or sleeping in the car at Walmart.

Does everyone really think that most folks are paying for Disney with out-of-pocket, budgeted cash? :-) I imagine that many do it with credit of some kind.

If only budgeting could actually be so universal and streamlined that we could predict someone else's possibilities based on our own. Doesn't work that way, though.

Well that shows how out of touch I am, just for an unexpected reason. Now that I think about my younger experiences, yeah, I mostly had them on credit. I suspect you're right, Carrie.

But at some level you still gotta pay for it. Whether you put it on credit or pay up front (or some combination), the money has to come from somewhere...unless people are declaring bankruptcy over a trip to WDW.

Yes, exactly. It's semantics. You're just moving the cost from the "vacations and entertainment" line to the "servicing debt" line of the budget.