O.K. now the B.S. starts to show up. GL's closing.

I just really wish they would have given some notice.

I live right across the street, and most weekends, the ride-side parking lot was packed. Even closing weekend.

However- a lot of the people who live in this area DO view it as a lower-income drawing type of park. That may have really hurt it's reputation.

You should see the people waiting for the RTA bus out in front of the park- they just stand in the road, yell things at cars, walk real slow across the street, etc...it just never gave the park a great appearance, ESPECIALLY to the "wealthy" people who live in Aurora/Solon/Chagrin/Bainbridge, etc.

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dexter said:

Yes, CF is a business. It's not hard for me to believe that sometimes businesses are capable of being dishonest in order to make a profit.

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There it is... there's the quote I've been looking for. How that's something we can't all agree on is beyond me.

I agree that it's possible for any business to be dishonest, including those in the amusement industry. What I don't agree with is that there is anything but superficial evidence that it happened in this case.

Take Kinzel's stock purchase, for example. He completed a large transaction not long before the company made an announcement regarding the future of the park. That's where the digging ends for some people. Let's draw a straight line between the two events, as if nothing else - known or unknown - could possibly be a factor. It's, "I'm mad, therefore he must have did something evil."

There is nothing reasonable about that. If someone questions it, though, they're accused of not looking at the "other side." I missed the part where close-minded became redefined as looking at a viewpoint and disagreeing with it.

Throughout the year, Cedar Fair routinely releases revenue and attendance data, capital improvement announcements, company outlooks, distribution information, and more. At what point could Kinzel make a transaction where someone wouldn't be able to draw a straight line to something?

dexter,

I didn't work a ride for Cedar Fair. I was a full time employee and my remarks about the company being a good employer were coming from that perspective.

Frankly, those are the folks I am concerned about when it comes to Geauga Lake closing. It is irrelevant how the seasonal employees feel about the park closing as they are just that...seasonal. They lose their jobs every year.

All you folks worried about the 10,000 shares that Dick just purchased are absolutely ignorant. Do you know how many shares he actually has? Do you know that he didn't pay a dime for the majority of his shares?

For Mr. Kinzel personally those 10K shares are nothing. They are the cost of a tank of gas for a guy that drives a Ferrari (metaphorically speaking of course).

I'm not defending every Cedar Fair move that was made but for crying out loud...let's try to have some type of an objective perspective here.

I worked for Cedar Fair 91-93, and I for one saw lot's of 'suspicious' behavior. Nothing too crazy, but corrupt management, crap like that. Sex offenders who gave promotions to the right people, threats, etc.

But I'll give em one thing, the operation was tight. But lots of 'hiding things' going on. *** Edited 9/25/2007 7:57:15 PM UTC by J7G3***

I know for a fact I never called Kinzel evil, and I don't believe I stated that what he did was plain wrong with absolute certainty. All I've been saying (in regard to his stock purchase) is that it's easy to connect the two things. Maybe those 10K shares are a drop in the bucket. Maybe it's a case of bad timing combined with bad news. But don't call people ignorant because they're making a reasonable assumption, at least from where theyre standing. If people are making that assumption here, they're making it elsewhere too... if they're paying attention, that is.

I think that CF dare I say mis-calculated on buying Paramount, lost its ass in that aspect, mis-calculated on buying GL from Six Flags and is now realizing they made a huge mistake.

I find it amazing, simply amazing that this sites webmaster and others are not crying foul on this....

YET, when Six Flags made mistakes these same people wanted to tar and feather SF management. What is the difference between GL's Closure and SFAWs?

To the respect that anyone whose been with a dying company isnt going to give a damn, and just slack off over there remaining time is probably the worst arguement I have ever heard. You cannot tell me that a person who still needs to make a living is going to screw off there final weeks at a job just for the sake of what? Explain to me that.

The "Kinzel is evil" statement was a general observation, not attributed to any one person. But, no, I don't think there's anything reasonable about making a hasty connection between those two events.

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CoastaPlaya said:
What the CRAP? What is wrong with you?

Don't you know apologizing--much less using that 'S' word--is against the TOS?

I demand his user account and all his posts be removed!

-CO

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Oops. Sorry for breaking the rules by apologizing.

Wait, I did it again. Shoot. I'm sorry for apologizing about apologizing . . .

Aw hell, I'll just delete my account now. ;)

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SkyRider7 said:

To the respect that anyone whose been with a dying company isnt going to give a damn, and just slack off over there remaining time is probably the worst arguement I have ever heard. You cannot tell me that a person who still needs to make a living is going to screw off there final weeks at a job just for the sake of what? Explain to me that.

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Maybe because they only have weeks to work for an employer that is taking away their livelyhood and could care less about them in their eyes?

-Tambo

Considering how much information was making out to us, the unwashed masses, I'm sure most of the employees -- and certainly the year-round staff -- knew something bad was going to happen. The argument that Cedar Fair didn't break the news early to preserve work standards doesn't hold that much water, IMO.

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OhioStater said:
Where were all the droves of people who care so much about Geagua Lake as it was fading?

At Cedar Point!

No.

One.

Went.

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If this is so true, why were Cedar Point's numbers flat with Six Flags/Geauga Lake declining? Do you honestly expect CP attendance figures to jump by half a million people now that GL is closed?

There have been numerous claims here that the closing was "competition" related. The people making that argument would probably expect a huge attendance increase at Cedar Point.

^^^ Yeah it does, because no Geauga Lake employees that anyone spoke to knew what was going on. If news was going around, it would have been leaked eventually.

It's completely false that employees slack once they find their job is going away. I once worked for a company where numerous full-timers had to deal with six month's notice and I assure you they did not get lazy, did not steal and did not corrupt the company in any way. Anyone who claims that's not true has never seen it firsthand.

^ We'll see what happens at the end of next year. Until then, I believe we're at a standstill when it comes to this point.

*** Edited 9/25/2007 8:23:46 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

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Gemini said:
There have been numerous claims here that the closing was "competition" related. The people making that argument would probably expect a huge attendance increase at Cedar Point.

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I do think it was "competition" in a sense that caused this. Six Flags tried to compete so CF had to look at it as competition. In no way do I believe GL was ever competition for CP. However, I can see CF deciding to NOT improve GL in attempts to keep numbers at CP from declining.

Geauga Lake's "Haunt" was cancelled when Halloweekends numbers were sub-par.

[edited because I suck at typing] *** Edited 9/25/2007 8:28:02 PM UTC by enfynet***

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Rob Ascough said:
For someone I've always considered to be open-minded, I'm surprised that you're so willing to dismiss an entire side of this debate.

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I'm open minded when I'm presented with reasonable evidence supporting the conspiracies.

I still don't get this "they weren't competition" claim. You have people in northeastern Ohio and if they're going to have to pick a local amusement park, one is going to get their business while the other isn't. How can it be reasoned those two parks aren't competing for the same dollar?

Perhaps we need to separate "competition" from "threat".

The McDonald's at the end of the causeway is competition for Cedar Point. But, they certainly aren't a threat.

I do think you can say Geauga Lake was competing for Cedar Point dollars. Heck, Kinzel himself has said the internet and online gaming competes for Cedar Point dollars.

But, the internet and Geauga Lake weren't a threat to Cedar Point.

They are also competing with the Indians, Tigers, Cavs (to an extent), Mudhens, AMC, Showcase, and every bar that has a live band.

Do you expect them to buy up all that and close it down so they can be the lone entertainment choice in Northern Ohio?

They were "competition" but not to any great extent.

^^ Good point.

I don't think Cedar Point has any threats... or had any threats in the recent past. But competition? Sure- movie theaters, FECs, arcades, the internet, television, video games and a million other entertainment options are competition for amusement parks... and that includes other amusement parks, especially if they're not far from each other.