O noes! The theme is gone!

#totallynotacult

I did drive by the giant basket on my trip

Is anything happening with the Longaberger building?

Shades:

How did Trump become such a massive figure?

Probably the McDonald's.

LostKause:

...he really knows how to wedge himself into the minds of everyone.

Trump is pure pro-wrestling. It's literally every trick in the book. (I know I did a post somewhere on Facebook on the topic a while back, I'm not looking right now)

Problem is, the general public has lowered itself to a pro-wrestling standard.

Shades:

I certainly don’t remember Obama flags or Bush flags...

https://www.nbcnews.com/new...flna453873

Not that it's the same, but, you know. That article is something in hindsight:

You don't desecrate the flag, especially for the veterans who fought the wars and died for it. In dictatorships, they have a picture of their dictator on some of the flags, but we haven't arrived at having a dictator, yet."

I don't remember seeing any of those.

Brian Noble:

We had a ball. Bully Pulpits! Yellow Journalism! Muckraking!

This reminds me a lot of a journalism class we had called Nonfiction Narrative. It went pretty deep into the fringes of what you might still call journalism, if not by the classic definition. We spent a good amount of time on Hunter Thompson and "gonzo journalism," and what happens when the author makes themselves part of the story. There are a lot of ethical and moral considerations. It kind of reminds me of the recent Hasan Minhaj "controversy" over his embellishments and departure from the straight facts in one of his stories (which, I should remind people, was a comedy special, not a BBC documentary). One thing that we kept coming back to in the class was, are all of these departures from what we call classic journalism OK if they convey what is going on? Bias as a factor would always creep into the conversation, but it became a gray area when we considered whether or not the delivery represented truthfulness. Like, you wouldn't have to get Hitler's take on genocide, because that's not bias if you know genocide is wrong. That was one of my favorite classes, and it had a lasting impact on my world view.

The media's job is to capture attention and monetize it.

Honestly, I think that this is too broad of a brush. I mean, a kid who posts a YouTube video about whatever is media. An independent film is media. Intent is not always profit, and even when it is, it is not mutually exclusive of doing something important or morally valuable. It's one of the plot lines that runs through all three seasons of The Newsroom on HBO/Max. Good journalism exists today, if people choose to apply the critical thinking to identify it and consume it even when it challenges their world view. And the journalists and their employers get paid.

If Trump is Time’s person of the year I’m not the least bit surprised, and in the end it means and effects practically nothing. Oh, except DJT will accept it for the honorarium that it isn’t and brag about that for the rest of his life.
I can’t believe the world has to face this again. And it’s true- a drive through rural America (not only Ohio) will tell you exactly how this happened.

What's telling is that people who never even owned an American flag will wave one with Trump's name on it. That's messed up. To the earlier point, this cult-like thing is not one we've seen with any other president. It's ironic that people eat up the message of a narcissistic elite who says you can't trust narcissistic elites. I mean, plus the racism and all that.

RCMAC:

a drive through rural America (not only Ohio) will tell you exactly how this happened.

Map shows Trump's 2024 election victory came as voters shifted red across the country--

Trump's victory in 2024 was driven by improvements in support in a vast majority of counties nationwide — more than 9 in 10 — according to data from counties where at least 95% of votes have been counted as of Friday. Trump's improvements crossed regions, and included urban, suburban and rural gains.

Trump even fared better in most places where a majority of voters preferred Harris, like New Jersey, or across the Hudson River, in his hometown of New York City.

The Garden State, a longtime Democratic stronghold, swung markedly in Trump's favor. For instance, the latest data show Trump with a slim 3% lead in suburban Passaic County, where he got just 41% of the vote in 2020.

In New York City, where Trump grew up and spent most of his life before entering politics, he didn't just surpass his two previous results; his roughly 30% vote share topped every Republican candidate since Ronald Reagan, 40 years ago.

The Stunning Geography of Trump’s Victory--

He managed to squeeze even more votes out of rural America — and that includes gains with rural Black voters. He continued to make significant advances with Latino voters, from the Southwest to the Acela Corridor. In big, diverse urban places — like Houston’s Harris County or Chicago’s Cook County — he pared down traditionally large Democratic margins. Many of the populous suburbs that so thoroughly rejected him in 2020 lost their anti-Trump edge. Even the biggest college counties appeared to lose the sense of urgency and outrage that marked their 2020 results.

I think it might be time to watch that Bill Maher video again. Votes shifted red practically everywhere. Am I the only one who remembers the Mondale/Ferraro shellacking in 1984? Similarly, Harris was a weak ass candidate. She lost to a racist, for crying out loud. At least that's what I heard someone mention once or seventy-four times at some point.

I had a thought post-election that I wish we could have seen if Biden would have fared better or worse than Harris against Trump had the Democrats not insisted he step down. There are so many variables that I honestly can't even make an estimation either way.

The analysis of where votes shifted is not wrong, but let's not characterize it as a cosmic shift. It's the tightest popular vote margin since Nixon, if you don't count the fact that W. and Trump both lost the popular vote in their first terms. To RCMAC's point, the rural voters still lean toward the cult more than urban constituents.

And let's be real in the post-mortem. The problem is that too many people bought into the gaslighting about how terrible everything is, despite obvious evidence to the contrary.

I think the question being asked is not so much how he won the election, but what explains the overt displays of support--flags, signs, banners everywhere--that do seem to be a uniquely Trumpian phenomenon? Obama's 2008 win was the most lopsided since I've been old enough to vote, where even my home state of Indiana went blue, yet even then I don't remember nearly the same level of flag-waving that I've seen in the Trump era.

I remember Gonch talking about that. What's the word pro wrestling uses to describe that the audience is in on the fakeness of the show? Kayfabe? Something like that?

He's really good about promoting his brand, and making money from that brand too.

Four years ago, I said that people were going to have to take down their Trump flags and put their American flags back up. Some people did that for a few months, until the Trump 2024 flags went for sale.

It was really nice to have a few months of not talking about him after Biden won. I can't believe we are going to have to talk about this guy for another four years, at least.

Part of that is the constant grift, everywhere and all the time. There is now a line of Trump fragrances, for crying out loud.

Every President has some degree of "cult of personality" to them. I think it is more or less an inescapable part of the job. And Trump is exceptionally good at tapping into simmering anger/resentment that many voters share, which tends to accelerate it. He's willing to tap into some resentments that "polite society" knows are there, and might even nod toward in coded language, but generally won't talk about openly. And, the more clear and direct, the larger share of the electorate who is picking up what he's putting down. He's also very good at creating a sense of belonging, and that matters. It's why people have Thoughts about a maize-and-blue flag in the middle of Ohio Stadium, for example.

There's also the problem of a "K-shaped" economy. For some of us, the economy has been great! That's been pretty lumpy, though. The Dollar Generals of the world are reporting a notable slowdown in consumer spending. Higher-end retail is booming. And so while to me it seems like the economy has never been better, I'm in the upper end of that K, and my experience is not the experience of a lot of other people around the recovery tables in the church basement.

I just read through this entire thread for the first time. A few takeaways:

1. Holy $h1T!
2. Somewhere I missed the conversation about theme.
3. And this one is serious, so it deserves a paragraph:

I'm very impressed with how civil the conversation played out (assuming Jeff didn't have to delete too many BS posts). If society, and all her disagreements, could play out as well as this thread has...the world (or at least this country) would be a much better place.

Brian Noble:
He's also very good at creating a sense of belonging, and that matters.

So are leaders of cults and gangs.

Listen, we survived four years of Trump before. We will survive four years of Trump again. I have no doubt that there are certain segments of society who are expecting to be hurt and will be. I have no doubt there are certain segments of society who are not expecting to be hurt and will be. Some people who voted for him will be hurt by decisions he makes, and they won't give it a second thought because he is "their guy".

I suspect as a white, male, straight, affluent guy I am going to be just fine. I'm just not feeling particularly giddy about it.

I'm not even sure I buy the K-shape. Most wage growth was at the lower end, and inflation moderated this year while unemployment remained at near record lows. I'm not saying some people aren't struggling, but the biggest complainers I see on TV are not the people that are hurting. Besides, I think the things that people were responding to were rising crime (crime has been in decline for years), immigrants "invading" (they meaningfully add to GDP and do not take "native" jobs), and of course, the eating of the dogs.

Bakeman31092:

Obama's 2008 win was the most lopsided since I've been old enough to vote, where even my home state of Indiana went blue, yet even then I don't remember nearly the same level of flag-waving that I've seen in the Trump era.

I hate to say it, but it's quite literally a "thanks Obama" moment. Remember, Trump was the birther-in-chief, and those of us who thought a Black president was the start of a post-racial America were super wrong. It went the other way because he was president. It emboldened racists, and Trump literally started it all with racism in his announcement speech. Obama only won the popular vote over Romney by 3.8%, and about 10 million fewer people voted then than this year. Again, I don't think this is a shift as much as it is disenfranchised white people getting to the polls. (And yes, I know all about the minorities Trump gained, but it's still small numbers.)

Jeff:

Besides, I think the things that people were responding to were rising crime (crime has been in decline for years), immigrants "invading" (they meaningfully add to GDP and do not take "native" jobs), and of course, the eating of the dogs.

We've gone in circles enough times, but with all due respect, I don't think this could be more wrong. Like Vater said - the Maher clip (I know, I know).

From where I stand it looks (feels?) like a weird denial of the reality:

"It can't possibly be this! They're clearly resonating with terrible people!"

And yeah, they are. But they didn't win on terrible people. If anything you have the two groups of his voters flipped, I would guess.

Here's a reply I made to one of Travis's (Lost Kause) posts on Facebook on November 8th (a full nine days before the conversation started here - and prior to the Maher clip even....I am a prophet after all), although, I did pull a few of these same ideas over here once we all started:

Me, over on Facebook:

---------------------------------------------
You know, hell might have frozen over. I actually read something Bernie said that I agree with:

The independent, who caucuses with Democrats, said it "should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them."
"First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well," Sanders continued in his statement. "While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they're right."

He's right. At least in perception...and perception is reality.

I grew up in a low income, factory household. You voted Democrat. The dems looked out for you. The GOP were suit-wearing fatcats with college educations that were always telling us what to do.

40 years later, that's flipped almost 100%. Those very same kind of folks are voting GOP.

I literally had posts in my feed that said, in a nutshell, "The economy is fine and if you don't think so, you don't understand. You need to be voting for human rights instead."

And I'm not suggesting that abortion or equality or any of that isn't important. It is. *Incredibly* so. But let's be realistic. If you're making a list of importance - food and shelter likely come at the top of that list. The dems completely seemed to miss that point and, at least in my bubbles as I said, actively attacked that idea.

I feel like the left talks down to people now in very much the same way - with no grip on what it's really like out there - that I felt like those guys in the suits who were Republicans did when I was a kid. For lack of a better term - out of touch.

For what it's worth, Bernie is still a goofball.
------------------------------------------------------------

We've had this conversation already. In this thread even! Dead horse and so on and so forth.

But yeah, I think this take is a rare total whiff from J-Pizzie.

Yeah. I remember that post, and remember thinking how spot-on it was. I'm still struggling to see the glowing economy everyone speaks of. My household income is higher now than it's ever been in my lifetime. I'm not struggling, per se, but oddly, the more I make, the more my savings stagnate and expendable income decreases.

Jeff:

I'm not even sure I buy the K-shape. Most wage growth was at the lower end, and inflation moderated this year while unemployment remained at near record lows.

Congrats, they got inflation numbers down, that doesn't mean that things magically got cheaper, those few years of massive inflation are still here in everyday goods, along with recent years smaller numbers tacked on top. Let's say you make $50k in 2020, to keep up with inflation you would need to have a salary of just shy of 61.3k today to maintain the same level of purchasing power, more or less. Lets say you made 50k in 2015, then that number you need today jumps to 68k. That is just to cover cost increase, meaning you got absolutely 0 in the way of pay raise/merit increase etc. Did people maintain that amount of wage growth? The 8% in 2022 was a real kicker for costs. It isn't just an inflation thing, corporate greed certainly plays a part, prices went up due to covid/supply chain/etc and businesses saw that people still paid, so when the difficulties eased, the prices never did.

I know wage growth has happened, but I do not believe that it has kept pace with inflation, let alone inflation plus some form of actual growth.

Yes, stock prices are up, awesome, for stock holders. Many many people in this country don't even think about stock, because they are concerned with paying rent or buying food. Unemployment being low is good, if those jobs pay well. I do feel that this site can be a bit out of touch with reality at times because most everyone here, well the frequent posters, are rather well off.

CoasterBuzz hates poor people.

At the time of the 2016 election, I was posting regularly on a site dedicated to colleges. It was dominated by people from the east and west coasts. That election came as a total shock to them. They couldn't get how it could happen. Mainly it was because they just didn't understand how people could have different views from their own. They chalked it up to those with differing views being dumber than they were, brainwashed, etc.

Covid was more of the same. They were living lives so different from the lives of myself and others I knew. And they expected colleges to act the same as they were acting (and thought the ones which were not were reckless). I remember talking to someone from NYC who told me how her office was planning to go back to the office. I told her we had done the exact same thing. Only 2 years before that. Living in very different worlds.

Site had an official "no politics" policy. But the moderators there all leaned so far left that anything that was center (and certainly anything that was right of center) was viewed as political and banned (posts were routinely edited and posters giving "time outs"). Anything left of center was viewed as factual and thus not political so it remained. I told some friends there I was leaving because it had become too political. Would have been interesting to be there for the 2024 election but I expect it was just the same old same old (I hear many of the same statements being made in general that were made in 2016 so sure those on the college site haven't come to any better understanding either).

I think society has in large part lost the ability to disagree with other people. Unable to have discussions about differences. Instead people with differing views are haters, racists, misogynists, etc. No need to discuss anything at that point. And many people are looking never to hear anything that offends them or is something with which they disagree (college site was full of examples like that which to me was always ironic because college is the place most of all where there should be freedom to express one's ideas--it was the place I had the greatest exposure to a large number of people with different ideas, experiences, etc. which led to a large number of wonderful discussions and broadening of one's views on a number of subjects).

And don't get me started on flag planting. They had 60 minutes during the game to defend the midfield logo. If you fail to do that, you lost the right to defend it after the fact. I saw it all unfold in front of my eyes. Sitting near the Michigan band and fans in the north end of the stadium. When the flag was raised it made its way towards midfield. Was clear where it headed (similar one made the same route 2 years ago and I believe is somewhere of prominence in the UM football facility). Could see Ohio State in front of the band singing the alma mater. Didn't expect it would end well (long history of ugly in The Rivalry). But to me the time to defend had passed. On the flip side, I think its always better to act like you have been there before (and here they have). Not surprised dumb politicians can't resist dumb legislation. Still doesn't stop it from being dumb though.