Nov 11 Kinzel Article

Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:00 PM
  • Cedar Point's attendance in 2007 = 3 million
  • He wants to build a hotel for Canada's Wonderland, and offers to buy the park come in all the time
  • 40% of former Paramount Parks attendance was from Season Passes, while CF parks it's about 10%. "CF failed to notice this impact initially"
  • Spending less than considered normal on CapEx in 2008
  • Geauga Lake wood coasters will not be moved - demo or sale only
  • Attendance in September and October "soared" making up for some shortfalls in August, as a result, earnings forecasts have been increased

Overall another great article that gives some interesting insights into the business we love to criticize.

Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:53 PM
Is 3 million good for CP's 2007 year attendence? I'm guessing yes.


Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:12 PM
3 million is still low for CP, but like it was pointed out in the article the park should be pulling in 3 to 3.2 million a year or better.

It's hard to say if the parks are on the right track. I think the article did a good job at getting across the current state of the company, and that changes should be taking place in the coming years.

Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:46 PM
That's too bad about the wooden rollercoasters, though everyone knows it is very difficult to move them. I think they should just demolish them ASAP so we can all get over it, "this too shall pass". They could take some pieces of wood or a piece of track and make a tribute to them at the museum at Cedar Point, that's the least they could do.
Eric [url=""]Facebook[/url]
Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:46 PM
3 million for CP is about what they expect to draw. We all have heard it many times that it their ceiling as far as attendance, and as long as they can continue to maintain those numbers they will be good.

I think they got the sleeper park in CW. When Paramount owned them they knew that they didn't really have competition, but they didn't really exploit that. Cedar Fair is going to exploit it. Look at what they are adding this year.

That is a good article. You don't see too many like that in a local newspaper. I think Cedar Fair is going to be in fine shape.

Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:54 PM
Do you think that demolishing the wooden coasters quickly will help fans of the park "get over it"? I'm glad that you're not in charge of Cedar Fair.

I have to hand it to CF: they're at least making an effort to see those coasters off to safe havens. Although perhaps I shouldn't be so laudatory -- they're a business, after all, and emotion and nostalgia don't enter into their decisions. It must just be that they think they can get more for the woodies by selling them than by paying to have them scrapped. Okay, I take it back.

I noted that the article was accompanied by a photo of the old waterpark at Geauga Lake, not Wildwater Kingdom. Kind of ironic.

My author website:

Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:13 PM
^ I am hoping that some other parks buy those coasters, and rebuild them. I would hope that at least 2 of the 3 would get rebuilt elsewhere.

Too bad Knoebels are busy on the Flying Turns. One of them would be a good addition for them. There are many parks that I could see that need a woodie that Geauga Lake has for sale. I hope it works out that they get relocated.
Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:24 PM
matt.'s avatar

Glitch01 said:
I think they should just demolish them ASAP so we can all get over it, "this too shall pass".

LOL, good one. Real knee slapper there. *** Edited 11/11/2007 11:26:25 PM UTC by matt.***

Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:47 PM
Too bad none of the three are going to King's Island. They do need a good woodie.


Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:03 PM
^Come on now, SOB might be a bust, and Ill admit that the Beast is an aquired taste but the Racer is an all around great ride.

2017 Trips: WDW, Dollywood, Cedar Point, KI, SDC, BGW, BGT, SWO, Universal Orlando

Sunday, November 11, 2007 10:19 PM
Well honestly, what are they going to do? I was half joking, but they don't seem to care much about them.

It just seems so costly and unnecessary to try and move them anywhere. *** Edited 11/12/2007 3:29:21 AM UTC by Glitch01***

Eric [url=""]Facebook[/url]
Sunday, November 11, 2007 10:31 PM
^^Explain to me what is good about the Racer at PKI? That ride goes from boring to very uncomfortable vibrating.

Beast is decent at night. SOB just flat out sucks.

My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

Sunday, November 11, 2007 10:35 PM
Maybe its me but the Racer consistently delivers some decent air to me (and, Im sorry for saying this, certainly more air then the Big Dipper ever did every time I rode it.) Also, the vibrating doesn't bother me, Ive learned to never use a backrest on any wooden coaster that doesn't have MFs, that way only Mean Streak like roughness really affects me.

And for the record, the Beast rocks at night, especially when its during the Haunt, a chill is in the air and you are in the first row :).

2017 Trips: WDW, Dollywood, Cedar Point, KI, SDC, BGW, BGT, SWO, Universal Orlando

Monday, November 12, 2007 5:53 AM
“I think a lot of it has been the economy, but certainly there’s the advent of PlayStation and things like that,” he said. “Our biggest comment from our surveys when we ask people why they haven’t made it to the park this year, is that they just don’t have time or it’s the hassle of it.”

Uh DUH! but they don't consider 10 dollar parking fees, 4 dollar drinks part of the hassle.

I DO! POP should be POP not POP plus, plus, plus.

Chuck, glad he finally GETS it but I also thought investments were going to go based on each parks revinue numbers not a cap company plan. Something like 20 percent from each park is going back into the park.

Monday, November 12, 2007 9:14 AM

Dick said:

“I think a lot of it has been the economy, but certainly there’s the advent of PlayStation and things like that,” he said.

Yeah, that's new competition for amusement parks because video games have only been around a few years. Maybe those newfangled home computers will catch on and become a threat too.

They should have waited until the GL coasters were being torn down before going with the article. That way they could have positioned Mr. Coaster Fan against a background of Big Dipper being crushed into splinters.

*** Edited 11/12/2007 2:16:43 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Monday, November 12, 2007 9:32 AM
Jeff's avatar The reason that's news to him is because he hasn't been listening to his underlings all over the country that have been telling him this for years. Even the ad agencies get it. The question is, what is he going to do about it? If he doesn't know, then loosen the reigns on the people who do have an idea.

Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - - My Blog - Twitter - Video

Monday, November 12, 2007 9:45 AM
Seriously, the guy isn't aware that things like video games have been posing a threat to the amusement industry for a couple of decades? If he refuses to listen to the people hired to help him make educated decisions, there is nothing he can do. That being the case, Cedar Fair desperately needs new leadership. The guy isn't conscious of things that have been a potential problem for years so how forward-thinking can the company be with him at the helm?

Maybe he thinks television will come to pass?

*** Edited 11/12/2007 2:47:03 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Monday, November 12, 2007 10:27 AM
Heres one for Gonch.

People do wanna travel, have fun, spend money. At what point does that come to being more hassle than it's worth? What price? What wait times?

He does get some things like making resorts at his properties to boost attendance and even maintain it through hard times. In fact thats the biggest increase in THE BOTTOM LINE over any CONCESSION or PRICE HIKE.


Monday, November 12, 2007 11:11 AM
Lord Gonchar's avatar Me? I still don't see the problem.

All that's happeneing in the case of these big regional parks is that attendance plateau I mention all the time.

Everyone keeps thinking you have to keep bringing more and more people throught the gate. Attendance is no longer the measure of success - especially for parks that have 'matured' in their markets. The easy attendance growth is over. It's time to find new ways to be profitable beyond just trying to lure more people through the gate.

The Toronto park was a huge surprise of the Paramount purchase in that it has few competitors, and nearly 70 percent of Canada’s population lives in Ontario.

And they still can't break 4 million. In comparison, it's downright amazing that parks like continue CP and SF parks do around 3 million (give or take) every year.

People do wanna travel, have fun, spend money. At what point does that come to being more hassle than it's worth? What price? What wait times?

I think you're putting your own personal spin on what the article says.

I don't think that going to the park itself is the hassle, but when compared to other, more easily accessible forms of entertainment, it is a hassle to load up the car and head out - that's the point.

And it's something the good folks at CoasterBuzz have been saying for ages now - the paks are competing with all kinds of entertainment options, not just other parks.

In summary, it's time to quit looking at attendance numbers as the main indicator of success and time to start thinking in non-traditional ways to compete with other forms of entertainment that are more attractive and more easily accessible to people.

Monday, November 12, 2007 11:17 AM
5 years back, CP and Europapark had around the same attendance figures (3 million) according to Amusement Business and shared the same place in their year charts. This year Europapark is scratching the 4 Million mark while CP seems to be stagnant.
After Silver Star the park did not build another real big marquee ride, instead they invested in two more big themed Hotels.
Even if you can´t ride Hotels, it seems to be the way to go for big parks to make people stay longer and spend more money.
When I went to stay at CP this summer, i can´t say that i was very impressed by the Hotel. It was good for my needs but it i guess their hotels are not a draw in itself.

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