No loops on Flying Dutchmans?

Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:13 PM
How come on Flying Dutchman roller coasters, there are never loops when you are in the flying position? I don't know if it's a safety reason or what but it's got me baffled.
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:31 PM
The G's would be way too high.
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:42 PM
I thought it would be exactly like an inverted coaster loop. To me, it looks weird having a loop that you'd see on a reg. coaster on a FD. Someday we'll see one. :)

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Nitro: The Most Explosive Coaster on the Planet explodes at Six Flags Great Adventure in 2001.
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:56 PM
I think they should keep it the same way it is. If they redid the loop on the outside, it would be very familiar to the horseshoe. In fact, when I asked my "general public" friend how intense the loop was, she responded, "Which one? The inside one or the outside one?." Anyway, I found the loop to be the best part of the ride. It's just such an unnatural position. I love it.

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Joshua Wilcox
The following statement is true.
The preceding statement is false.
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:01 PM
I liked the loop on X-Flight. Man, those G's are incredible.

I don't know if the G's would be higher if the loop was performed in the flying position, just that they would be placed on all the wrong spots on the body (I am not a physicist or an engineer, but that is what it seems like to me, I could be wrong.)
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:40 PM
Your back is able to tolerate g-forces more than your chest, so I don't think we will be seing any loops in the flying position.

The reason is is that the trains of the Flying Dutchman make it so the G's are positioned onto you chest and lower abdomen. If it was "possible" (after seeing X, I now believe nearly anything is possible;)), Vekoma wouldn't have taken the time to design that flip onto your back.

Anyone who's ridden a Flying Dutchman knows about the extreme G-forces on this ride, epecially in the loop. I don't think you'd want all of those G's on your ribcage...

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Benjamin Jones | Yet another coaster-craving yuppie
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:45 PM
The G Force would probably be to high.

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Current Favorite Coasters:
1)Raging Bull 2)Millennium Force 3)Medusa (SFMW) 4)Vertical Velocity (SFGAm) 5)Incredible Hulk, The
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:49 PM
I thought the loops were designed to be entered on your back so that the G's would be pressing you into the back of your seat and not the restraints when you entered and exited the loop.

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roller coaster n: an elevated railway (as in an amusement park) with curves and inclines on which cars roll.
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:50 PM
I think that the design G limit for the flying position is about 2.5 in the direction away from the track. This makes a loop with the rider on the outside nearly impossible. Besides, the loop as it is with the little bit of air time or drop at the top is really neat. (Isn't it confusing trying to apply the usual rollercoaser terminology to a Flying Dutchman.)
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Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:19 PM
maybe B&M will make u a loop from the flying positions on AIR
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Monday, July 30, 2001 3:59 AM
OK guys and girls just stop and think for a sec. Inverted coaster...you are sat on your bum, which is padded and designed to support you, distributing your weight through your spine. Now think Flying-Dutchman, you are laying on your front, only certain parts of you are in contact with the ride. If you imagine going into a loop in the "prone" position...

1) As you enter it, the tops of your shoulders are thrust into the harness, increasing the pressure on them and your collar bones, the top of your spine is compressed and your head is likely to be pulled down adding unbelieveable tensile & compressive forces on your neck.
2) As you start to head up in the air, these forces ripple down your body (like a wave on the ocean) canusing the bones in your spine to grate together with a high possability of popped/slipped discs.
3) You crest up into the apex of the loop, if you neck was pulled forward it will now be wrenched back and you'll likely give yourself a concussion. You spine is arched over but you either are pushed up into the harness or drop down into your seat (depending on velocity).
4) You pass over the top of the loop and the ride begins to accelerate again, not a problem here really.
5) You start your decent, again, your body weight is pressed down onto your shoulders against the restraints (covered that part already).
6) Vertically down/curve under. You come away from the seat and are once again pressed into the harness, your spine being pushed into your body by the G's and your head gets pulled forward again.
7) Bottoming out/exit the loop. The G forces pull your head down like someon hanging off it, again wrenching at your neck and spine, your velocity is high and the forces once again ripple throough your spine as they balance from the exit.

Now imagine all that happening to your body in a matter of seconds. The amount of change in the size and direction of force/pressure would be painful to say the least.

Well, that's how I understand it anyway (just watch AIR proove me wrong!).

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"'cos you know, it's strange! You stand in a library and go "AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH" and everyone just kinda stares at you, but if you do the same thing on a aeroplane everyone joins in!"
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Monday, July 30, 2001 8:03 AM
I'm with Xen on this one, however, a corkscrew or a barrel roll wouldn't seem near as stressful on the body as a full-on vertical loop.
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I rode "X" and never went upside down.
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Monday, July 30, 2001 9:00 AM
I'm with Xen as wellbut what difference does it make?the way the loop is now you are on your back inside the loop.if you were on the outside of the loop you would still have a positive g-load only this time on your chest rather than your back.one way to reduce that would be to slow the speed of the train by making the loop more circular rather than a clothoid loop.if you slow the train you should get a much lower g-load.
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Monday, July 30, 2001 9:25 AM
The G's are intense enough when you're on the inside of the loop. I can't imagine what they'd be like on the outside.

My feeling is that the rides don't need vertical loops at all. It kind of breaks up the continuity of the ride having to roll you over half way. I think B&M was wise in not doing any on AIR.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
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Monday, July 30, 2001 12:52 PM
I feel exactly the same way. I don't mind flying coasters with inversions, but I don't see any real reason that they need to have them. I can't wait to see how AIR turns out.

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Joe Cernelli
Head Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
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Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:51 AM
batwing: slowing the train would reduce g's but there's still all your body weight, aslo, there's the risk of not making it over if you slow to try and reduce the g's by too much.

Changing the shape to a circular loop woul reduce the intensity of these forces at the peak moments but it would really just even out the transition from one stage to the other. I don't imagin it would make too much difference, maybe make it more comfortable and reduce whiplash but the element would still be pretty painful.
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