New Great Escape hotel opens with indoor water park

Why would sporting events not qualify? Last time I checked, most sporting arenas had very "ordinary" parking facilities. And while some people may know the value of a dollar, it's very subjective. The type of customer Snyder is after doesn't mind the $15 parking price, they'll consider it par for the coarse, and seek value *inside* the park. It seems to be the season pass "milking" enthusiasts that are the ones complaining.

Problem is, Snyder and Co have made it tougher to milk season passes all summer long, and I think that's a good move for the company.*** This post was edited by DWeaver 2/10/2006 11:13:30 AM ***

Sporting events don't count because they're not a daily occurance like a casino or major zoo or downtown parking ramp or hotel lot in the city. It's a "Special Event" basically. They happen on a schedualed basis like every week or so... vs. a park which is open daily (during regular season for seasonal parks)...

Basically, I've seen $10.00 for those various places mentioned... but I haven't seen $15.00... even in Toronto, which uses the almighty Canadian Dollar.

It's gouging the customer for no reason... families get season passes... not just coaster fans & teen penny-pinchers. Most of the time when I was at the park before they opened the gates (any general park)... in the Season Pass line, I saw a MAJORITY (50+ %) of the people in the season-pass lane as mom & pop + their kids vs. a bunch of teens. Granted, it was at the opening time vs. during the day.... but the point is that just as many local families get season passes as do teens whom they are trying to deterr...

...and if they keep bumping up the price to the point where it's like a season pass at a ski-resort... then it's going to turn away a LOT of people, becuase they'll just turn to a state-park for a day of family fun or find a smaller park that will absoultely cream them with their offerings of a slightly smaller version of a fun day-long park for just a sliver of the cost.

...don't forget that families aren't exactly rich... and if they're looking for multiple times to spend time with the kids for the day without taking an actual vacation... a season-pass at a thrill park is/was affordable without being too expensive.

Your still thinking like an enthusiast. For most families, amusement parks *are* special events. Unlike us, or a teenager during summer vacation, most families only go to an amusement park once a year. For these people, that day is a special event. These people know what they can and can't spend, and they realize that to take the family to the park is an expense they'll have to deal with *once and year*. These people aren't going to moan about a $15 parking fee because they're only going to do it once.

Like I said, it's the multi-day, season pass users that this is going to affect the most. And these are people that Snyder wants less of anyway. These people don't spend money. They milk the season pass and buy food elsewhere.

Call it what you want, but it's smart business.

I don't think that sporting events are equally comparable to amusement parks in terms of operations, however, when looking at some venues they have a comparable number of operating days as a seasonal park. For instance, the United Center in Chicago has 42 Hawks games, 41 Bulls games, ice shows, and concerts. With all of those taken into consideration we're looking at close to 150 days of operation. SFGA probably operates close to 160 days. United Center parking is $15, $20, or $30 depending on what type of parking you want.

I definitely don't think that the average family that goes to a Six Flags park will even notice the change in parking prices or even care for that matter. If Six Flags can make $5 more per car load of the infrequent visitor then that makes great business sense.

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Your still thinking like an enthusiast. For most families *are* special events.

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Just the complete opposite... from this perspective, I am thinking like a businessman, I am thinking common sense, and I am thinking of penny pinching. When it comes to business & money, I do NOT think like an enthusiast...

You may qualify the day as a "special event", but the park is not a special event. It's a business that's open on a daily basis just like a state park is (of which charges for their entrance, but only if by car, not by bicycle or walking)... do people goto state parks on a daily basis? No... maybe once or twice per year because it costs 7 to 10 bucks to get in... oh, is that thinking like a park enthusiast too? No... it's all a matter of business and gouging the customer for NO reason.
Casino... go there every day? Well, maybe the ones with an addiction. A downtown hotel? That's certainly not a daily or weekly occurance... it's more like once in a long-while... but they charge upwards of $10.00 parking... but not $15.00.

You're taking it as if the quote "general public" are a bunch of morons who don't do research. Fact is, internet service in homes account for the vast majority of families now-a-days... and before the family decides to make a day of something, a LOT of families do the research to find out how much things cost and where they can get discounts or other anemities at a cheaper price. If they find out that they now have to pay $15.00 parking, they remember the price of food as being outrageous from last time, and they see the price of a ticket has gone up in price..... then notice another nearby park with free parking, cheaper gate-price... but of course a smaller park overall... they'll probably lean towards THAT park because they're looking for a place to take the family for a day to enjoy while trying to not go broke while ALSO trying to equal the same amount of fun they would have going to the otherwise pricer park. It's all a matter of the middle-class citizen trying to save a few bucks... has absolutely nothing to do with "thinking like an enthusiast".

I call it gouging the customer, and not smart business decision...
No matter what angle you look at it... $15.00 parking for the bigger parks is outrageous... and $10.00 parking from free the year before... it's just gouging the customer because they can.
That won't deter the season passers because they'll get a season parking-pass... it'll deter the middle class families trying to save a buck or two anywhere possible.

So your saying families aren't going to pay the $15 to park?

Because if you aren't, your whole arguement goes out the window. You can research all you want, but remember, if a SF park is the more covenient choice, that's what most families are going to choose. The smaller park may be out of the way and the price for gas will out weight any parking fee, especially when there are discounts elsewhere around the park (this we don't know yet).

It's no more gouging of the customer than any other price increase. Those who can afford and feel it's worth it will pay. Those who can't and won't, will choose another option, no different than anything else, bottom line. Snyder wants those who can and will, not the second group. Problem solved.

And like I said, only enthusiasts have whined and moaned thus far. Get back to me when the "GP" refuses to pay this new fee. Until then, we're only speculating*** This post was edited by DWeaver 2/11/2006 11:52:18 PM ****** This post was edited by DWeaver 2/11/2006 11:53:52 PM ***

BTW, SFMM is already operating with this new parking fee, and the park had a nice crowd today and I heard no one complaining about the fee to park. My brother and I split the fee, and it wasn't that big a deal. I'm not saying $15 isn't steep because it is. But I completely understand the reason this decision was made.

You can already feel the changes around the park. Riddler's Revenge ran 3 trains all day, and everything else had 2 trains.

*** This post was edited by DWeaver 2/12/2006 2:48:07 AM ***

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And like I said, only enthusiasts have whined and moaned thus far. Get back to me when the "GP" refuses to pay this new fee

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Obviously with the seasonal parks... the quote "GP" isn't really paying attention to the prices currently. Unless you got your obscessive compulsive individual whom must plan everything well in advance to the pin-point time... most normies who plan a trip to the park won't even be considering it until maybe a week or two before it actually happens... so I'll get back to you on this during of after the season when there are complaints filed against the park for gouging the customer (for no other reason than for their own financial gain)... most of it will go unnoticed by us because most of us don't work at the park, especially in the guest-relations dept whom would take in the complaints. Not to mention that it'll only make headline news if enough people piss&moan about it to the point where the media pays attention.

...BUT... as for the small park with free parking & a smaller fee... I'm referring to those places that people actually have a CHOICE where to go. Most areas, people have a park where there is a choice between the larger Six Flags park, or a smaller independant park (or hell, even a different corporate park like Cedar Fair or Paramount).... if they do the research (like I've stated, they do)... and they map out which is the better bargain factoring in parking fees (listed on website), admission (listed on website), distance from home, and then anemities of whcih the park offers... they may wind up choosing the non-Six Flags park because it'll be a better choice for them.

Magic Mountain or Knotts? For a penny pincher, they'll choose Knotts. For the thrill seeking enthusiast, they'll seek Magic Mountain... regardless how friendly the staff is at either park.

Do you honestly believe that people "don't care" about paying $15 to park? Are you serious?!? I overhear a lot of people complaining when I'm at Dorney about paying $8 to park. I can't imagine if they'd try to double that.

It comes back to perceived value. If you have a steep parking price AND a high gate price, people will feel ripped off twice (regardless whether or not they voice that complaint). If they feel ripped off, they WILL go to that smaller, cheaper-parking-and-gate park that may be out of the way. They might even pay more in gas to get there than they are saving. As I think it was Gonch pointed out a while back, most people don't factor gas costs in their day trips. The higher parking price will most likely raise the bottom line in 2006. But the more important question is, will they turn too many customers away in the future due to poor experiences this year? No ammount of speculating can determine that. We'll just have to wait and see, and hope for the sake of the company that those of us saying "It's a bad move" are wrong.

I'm surprised they don't try to roll out an hourly-based parking system (i.e. you get a timestamped ticket when you go in, and pay like $1/hr that you're in the lot). if you assume $1/hr, you'd be close to the $15 for full-day patrons (get there for park opening at 9am, and stay until midnight and that's 15 hours), but you'll also enhance the value of people who get there later in the day. If you're worried about people not paying, you could even make them fork over $20 when they come in, and then they receive "cash back" when they leave based on how long they were in the lot. I don't know about you, but if the park gives *ME* $5 as I leave, I'm going to feel like I'm getting value - never mind the $15 I paid to have my car sit there for the day. Plus "$1/hr" sounds better than "$15/day", even if you wind up having your car in the lot for 15 hours.

No. I'd rather they charge you whatever they charge you, and let you get on with your day. No one is saying people won't complain or care (although I heard no one complain at SFMM), but most people will except it as a reality as they do with most price increases, and move on with their life.

" The higher parking price will most likely raise the bottom line in 2006".

And that IS the bottom line. They can always offer parking insentives next season once Shapiro is able to get the season pass prices up where they should be, or they can simply re-lower the price. But something drastic needs to be done to start the process of pulling this company out of the red. Sure, some people will complain, mainly teenagers and enthusiasts used to milking the season pass all summer. Now you *can't* do that because the parking fee will get you right from the gate.

I think it was a brilliant move.

As an area resident who has been visiting the park and long time family season pass holder who has spent thousands of dollars each year with our family there in food, games and such. I have to comment that my whole family is extremely unhappy with the changes made to the Great Escape. Living only 2 miles from the park, for years we have gone over for a few hours and would spend at least $100-$200 a day on food and games. Not only are we now forced to pay $10 to park farther from the park then we ever had to in our lives, (and the nerve to charge $20.00 for what used to be the crappy overflow parking in the sand!!!!) the parking attendant were extremely rude when we asked if we could park in empty spaces where people had left in the $10 parking area closer to the park since it was raining and it's a bit of a long walk for my wife. Other parks that charge have Trolleys to bring you to the park.....now we have to walk from all the way from the back of the parking lot, in the 38 years I've gone there, even on their busiest days, we never had to park this far away. Before we could always pull in and get front row parking and run in and have a few hours of fun. They have completely ruined the experience of what a park should be out of corporate greed and created a kind of class oriented segregation by offering people willing to pay above their extortionate prices to just have a good time. The have also ruined the look of my town and it's environment with the paving in a wetlands area (they must have paid someone a bribe to get that done...now our streams and lakes are polluted from all the car runoff and now you expect us to pay even more for worse services. I'm am extremely angry and plan not to spend a single penny for food this year ..IF...we even go again. I wish I had not bought season tickets so I could be charged even more money and treated worse. Great Escape has always been one of the main reasons I loved this town, and now they have ruined the whole experience for my family.Losing thousands in food sales just to get a lousy $10 is just wrong, Charging $20 for parking is even worse, they should be ashamed of themselves ...in my case...they've lost money..... and LOTS of it. It will no longer be a place I recommend to local tourists and I'll make sure the family eats well before going in and pay $80 for less food than what we eat at the overpriced McDonalds for $25.Now, for my other rant on the Waterpark. For a waterpark, it's probably the worst waterpark I have ever been to, but it's indoors so since it was early spring and the kids had a weekday off, we decided to try the $185 off season weekday rate. I was a little amused that they would have valet parking for a Hotel that was no better than some highway Holiday Inns.They advertise the rooms as Suites...which is only because they have a 1/4 wall separating the small room from the couch. It's no bigger than most regular sized hotel rooms, if not smaller. The bathrooms seemed more like what you would see in a hospital.As for the waterpark, my 18 year old had little interest after an hour and ended up just going home since he didn't like the room. My 11 year old enjoyed it more, but he would have been bored quicker if not that many kids from his school were also there. If you smoke, you don't want to be staying here, there is no smoking anywhere in the buildings or in the rooms, so...with wet hair, many parents huddled outside at the doorway where we would get disgusted looks from people entering while we froze to death.Most hotels offer a free Breakfast Buffet...not this place...they wanted $4 for a small cup of crappy coffee and they didn't even have nondairy creamer. When we got home, we found a $50 charge on our card that we didn't make. When we called their office, they informed us that they charged the card ahead of time without telling us in case we made any purchases. I found the whole experience draining, I feel like I'm at some hokey rip-off park that every time I turn around where I have to open my wallet up. On the other hand, I would like to compliment Sea World parks, their services, food and items in their gift stores extremely well priced and they were the cleanest parks I have ever been too, much better than Disney. I think the best park we went to didn't have any rides...it was Discovery Cove. The price was $250 per person, but we were treated better than anywhere we have ever been and the food that was included was top notch along with Shrimp, sushi and a hot of other great food and coffee when we came into the park in the morning...all part of the package. They also included a free snorkel, tanning lotion. I don't mind paying money for good treatment and a worthy value, but Great Escape is dirty with many rides not operating with overpriced EVERYTHING and rude service.
*** This post was edited by 5/26/2006 4:18:42 PM ***