My take on CCI

Friday, July 19, 2002 11:05 AM

chris said:

gator 1 - True, but I gues what I was getting at was this: Were those small parks that bought the CCIs really looking for a wood coaster (or any coaster, for that matter), or did they get one simply because CCI's existence made it possible? If CCI hadn't existed, would places like Indiana Beach, Holiday World, Silverwood, and Big Chief's have multiple wood coaster instalations? (snippet)

gator 2 - And give up all your beloved Beemers?



Issue 1) I think what Chris (the other Chris) said was what I was getting at....you can get a great price...maybe TOO good of a price, on a great coaster...in some cases, an AMAZING coaster....they were looking at wood for price, and looking around they saw CCI's cropping up like weeds. Gotta try one before you decide to buy, and once you ride your first CCI, the first thought that comes to mind is "I MUST have one of these in MY park". Then, after your park has one, and the public is THAT thrilled, and your attendance JUMPS, it occurs to you that ANOTHER masterpiece might not be a bad idea, and it's suddenly affordable because the first one paid itself off SO quickly....sure, there's maintenance costs, but once you have the maintenance staff, another woodie is a good idea....and so you call CCI back for price AND quality.....

Issue 2) What with all this global warming, and the fact that Beemers really are beginning to bore me, and that FL will never get a CCI, moving is not as bad an option as previously thought.....if money ever permits, I could see Wintering in FL and Summering up north....(I'd consider SoCal, but the attitudes out there would kill me...I believe in SUBSTANCE before style, and I'd get lonely out there - and frustrated)....I hate having my "fast" food *presented* to me in a hlaf-hour by an actress/waitress.....;)

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Friday, July 19, 2002 11:10 AM

'Gator:

-Ahem!- [clears throat]. You *can* find substance out here in LA, you just gotta know where to look or the right people to avoid ;-)

Moosh - who hopes people would consider him substance *with* style...LOL!

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"There's nothing sweeter than a bowling ball with a liquid center" - Homer Simpson

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Friday, July 19, 2002 3:51 PM

Word! Then again...I'm from "San Diego" not LA! ;) heh heh.

I too thought it interesting that the Rattler was so cheap. They must have been hard up for the business. Heck, I could have almost afforded the thing...and I don't have a job!

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"If the beats were made of meat then they would have to be me ..." - L.L. Cool J

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Friday, July 19, 2002 7:18 PM

Not referring to yous guys (Joisey accent in evidence)....more to the general attitude...it was amazing to me how everything from a simple cup of *caw-fee* to lunch at Wendy's involved an extra 10 minutes minimum while you were entertained by the overemphasis on the "show". The guy behind the counter at Starbucks, the woman at the grocery checkout, wherever I went, the employees seemed to think I was more concerned with their hair and nails than with the service....(I wasn't)....

I'm cool with that, it just *seems* to me to be a lot of effort with little reward....I guess I'm more oriented personality-wise to the Midwest, where "folks" are friendly and not real concerned about the *niceties*. Heaven forbid I get caught in a flannel shirt with a fishing pole over my shoulder, or that I wake up before (or even around) sunrise....pardon the Midwestern cliches, but I seem to have more "simple" needs....to go with my simple mind.... Just can't see myself getting up an hour earlier for work so that I can *look my best*....

How this relates back (poor segue, but hey)....is that in the midwest...follow me here cause the logic gets pretty twisted....folks would be more willing to build something that they'll CARE for, and continue to invest their time and money in, say saving an older piece of farm equipment, (or a wooden coaster), by WORKING on it and keeping it in top condition.....on the coasts, I think it's more likely to find the attitude of "use it until it's gone, throw it out and buy new". I may be an East Coast kid, but I really enjoy the different lifestyles and such that we get to encounter in our travels to enjoy "the endless summer of roller coasters"....

*** This post was edited by rollergator on 7/19/2002. ***

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Friday, July 19, 2002 8:40 PM

Regarding Intamin woodies...who on the boards has ridden one? Colossos looks amazing, but I have heard that it doesn't really ride like a true wood coaster. I've heard that the track is made of steel I-beams and the cars use polyeurathane wheels, resutling in a more steel-like ride. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying one of the things I love most about wood coasters is the feeling of the ride, and if these silky smooth Intamin woodies pop up around the country and replace classic old-fashioned wood coasters, I for one will not be all too thrilled. Of course, this is the opinion of one who has never ridden an Intamin woodie, so take it as that.

Still, if Intamin woodies really do ride like steel coasters, it leads me to wonder why parks even bother and just don't build a steel hyper...

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It's 106 miles to Indiana Beach. We've got a full tank of gas and a half-full cooler of cokes. It's light, and we're wearing Disaster Transport 3-D glasses....hit it!

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Friday, July 19, 2002 9:52 PM
AE at SFGAm is Intamin....I got several rides backwards and thought it was good, liked the helices, thought it could've done with less braking - but I always say that....;)....of course, there's probably considerable difference between that and a newer woodie of theirs....
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Friday, July 19, 2002 10:54 PM

"Still, if Intamin woodies really do ride like steel coasters, it leads me to wonder why parks even bother and just don't build a steel hyper..."

Probably for the same reason that California Adventure build a "steel" rendition of an old-fashion wooden coaster in California Screamin'. Easier to maintain over the long haul, and most of the paying public won't care one wasy or another, as long as it's a good ride.

Plus, you can go LARGER with these coasters without the headache of a Son Of Beast or Mean Streak.

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"Escuse me, can you tell me where the heck the Mystery Lodge is"?

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Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:26 AM

MooreOn said:
"Regarding Intamin woodies...who on the boards has ridden one? "

Unfortunately there are only seven in the world (four in Japan, one in the USA, Germany, and The Netherlands). I got to ride White Cyclone which was a fun ride, but pretty rough. It may be because both my rides were towards the back (once over the wheels too, they don't let you choose your seat :(). The drops were good, and there was airtime, but those huge helicies were kind of weird. If I "had" to give it a rating, I would say 3/5. It is one of the most stunning coasters to look at in the world. The structure is amazing.
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TOGO!

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Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:41 AM
I guess I should have specified "newer" Intamin woodies. Come to think of it, I have ridden AE, so I guess I have ridden an Intamin wood coaster. Doesn't White Cyclone use laminated wood and PTC's with steel wheels? I am wondering how the newer coasters like Colossos ride compared to your typical woodie.

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It's 106 miles to Indiana Beach. We've got a full tank of gas and a half-full cooler of cokes. It's light, and we're wearing Disaster Transport 3-D glasses....hit it!

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Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:59 AM

Woodies suffer from a publicity gap. It's easier to promote something that's bigger, faster, more extreme. The exploitable angle of X or V2 is obvious to anybody, and Discovery Channel and the newspapers' travel sections eat 'em up.

Every year, the coaster shows are full of coverage of the latest "extreme" rides. Of course, from watching the shows you'd never know the headaches these rides cause their parks or how much downtime they endure.

On the other hand, CCIs are exciting for reasons that are a little harder to explain and the mainstream media doesn't really know what to make of them. You almost have to be something of an enthusiast to "get" Cornball Express or Raven. (Not really, any idiot can have fun on a ride, but you know what I mean.)

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Saturday, July 20, 2002 3:22 PM

Ah, but there's one thing that could save wooden coasters from falling into obscurity. Sure, they aren't huge draws in big chain parks. Sure, they cost a load to maintain. Sure, they can't do half the things steel coasters can. But in the last three years, one company has proven that you can make a highly marketable wooden coaster. That company (and my second favourite coaster designer to B&M) is GCI.

And what did they do? The proliferation of the dueling wooden coaster. Not just that, but noteworthy dueling wooden coasters. I'm not sure what happened to CCI's Twisted Twins. A good ride, but there was no buzz around it.

However, GCIs dueling wooden coasters seem to be big draws, and to warrant a LOT of hype. I've been on both (Lightning Racer and Gwazi) and both are superb wooden coasters. Not only are they great coasters when you're racing toward (or, with) another train, but they're great coasters on their own.

I am the biggest supporter of GCI that you'll ever find. Not to say that CCI makes bad coasters (or even mediocre ones...) but GCI has come up with some smooth, yet conveluted coasters that emulate small, steel, twisting coasters to the best of their abilities. Just look at Wildcat or Roar's (either) drops.

And, the point has been made that they retrack rides, as well as creating them, giving them a good source of income. They also create their own trains, the Millennium Flyers (hands down the BEST wooden coaster trains out there).

By creating huge, out of the ordinary wooden coasters (whether it be due to their twisted layouts or the fact that there are dueling portions) they can create a huge draw at a park, and justify charging more for them. I guarantee you that neither Busch Gardens in Tampa nor Hersheypark regret any penny they gave to GCI.

And aside from that, CCI may be gone, but there's no doubt in my mind that 'spinoffs' of that company will be created, and probably in very little time.CCI WAS doing things right, they just made a few mistakes (if undercharging can really be considered a mistake) and I'm certain that former employees will be very eager to get back in the business.

Wooden coasters are far from gone, in my opinion. If anything, we're going to see more great designs, because I see GCI gaining popularity now, along with those that worked with CCI re-entering the market.

Edited to say: Cal Screamin is steel for two reasons. Firstly, they wanted an easy ride to maintain (as you eluded to) and secondly (more importantly) they wanted a QUIET ride. The lifthill on that ride is nothing but LIMs, because of noise considerations. (Of course, the first portion (launched) is as well, not possible on wooden coasters.) Also, for the sound system onboard to function, you can't be competing with the roar of the trains.

*** This post was edited by I-Nar on 7/20/2002. ***

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Monday, July 22, 2002 2:44 AM
Well personally I'm amazed that it hasn't occurred to anyone else here that woodies aren't exactly politically correct right now, so no wonder we're not seeing very many new ones! First, if any type of coaster is ever found to CAUSE brain damage, I can almost guarantee that it'll be the woodies before anything else. Plus, way more people are injured on woodies than they are on steelies, even if it is usually only a bruise or two. Second, woodies are probably the most dangerous coaster type there is. We've all heard of several collapsing, but how many steel coasters do you know that collapsed? Third, woodies destroy forests. And to build something that destroys hundreds of acres of trees every year, and purely for recreational purposes, in this day and age of global warming concerns is insane! I think that most parks are finally starting to figure out these types of increased risks and expenses, if for no other reason than to reduce the bottom line costs of constantly having to retrack as opposed to the relatively low annual maintence costs of steel coasters. Sure, they probably never even think about what the woodies do to the forests either, but if we really are nearing the end of the latest woodie renaissance, I think it's probably for the best anyway. Not that I really want that to be the case, but in the grand scheme of things, woodies really aren't very friendly at all!

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Gay Roller Ride
http://www.gayrollerride.com
If you build it, they will come!

*** This post was edited by Iron Draggon on 7/22/2002. ***

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Monday, July 22, 2002 2:54 AM

well in thet scnce, all coaster are destructive to the enviroment, steel ceasters require raw iron for steel, coal is used to smelt the iron to steel, then land needs to be destroyed to make room for the ride, all for fun.

Woodies can be thought of as natural, theres a whole movemont toward nature, woodies are made of wood, one of tthe most natural elements out there.

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Monday, July 22, 2002 3:10 AM
Well I'll admit that the environmental impact of woodies is a big stretch, but there's alot more concern over deforestation right now than there is over strip mining, so that's why I said that.

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Gay Roller Ride
http://www.gayrollerride.com
If you build it, they will come!

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Monday, July 22, 2002 5:53 AM

Actually, the environmental impact of woodies goes well beyond "simple" deforestation. Pressure-treated lumber is pretty nasty stuff, what with the chemicals involved in the "treating" part of that. Still, the amount of wood involved in a few small coasters is NOT a huge impact compared to all the other construction that goes on in the world...

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--Greg
"Are you justified in taking life to save life?" -- The Great Debate, Dream Theater
My page

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Monday, July 22, 2002 6:40 AM

Pine is not "forested", it's harvested....drive through GA sometime and look at ALL those tree farms....don't sweat the lumber on coasters, sweat the use of Mahogany and other hardwoods obtained almost exclusively in rainforests....

But GregLeg's right about the nasty chemicals involved in pressure-treating....Chromium and Arsenic may make the wood virtually impenetrable for bugs and rot, but it's also bad enough so they've had to take it out of many, many playground areas.....seems little kids keep putting their hands in their mouths...(hey, I'm a nail-biter myself, but no ankle-biter)....;)

bill, thinking GCI, Intamin, Vekoma, and (hopefully) PTC can satisfy our needs for new wood and woodie maintenance.....but that CCI will be sorely missed....:(

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Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:26 AM

Just a side note:

Screamscape is reporting a rumor that S & S may be working with Denise Dinn and other people from CCI. They mention that S & S are interested in building wood coasters. This could be comeback many of us expected.

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Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:48 AM

MooreOn said:

Regarding Intamin woodies...who on the boards has ridden one? Colossos looks amazing, but I have heard that it doesn't really ride like a true wood coaster. I've heard that the track is made of steel I-beams and the cars use polyeurathane wheels, resutling in a more steel-like ride. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying one of the things I love most about wood coasters is the feeling of the ride, and if these silky smooth Intamin woodies pop up around the country and replace classic old-fashioned wood coasters, I for one will not be all too thrilled. Of course, this is the opinion of one who has never ridden an Intamin woodie, so take it as that.

Still, if Intamin woodies really do ride like steel coasters, it leads me to wonder why parks even bother and just don't build a steel hyper...

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It's 106 miles to Indiana Beach. We've got a full tank of gas and a half-full cooler of cokes. It's light, and we're wearing Disaster Transport 3-D glasses....hit it!



There are complaints that the Intiman woodies are a little too smooth for a woodie, but was Colossos a good ride, lets just say Shivering Timbers is the baby and Colossos is the big daddy!!! Having been on four Intiman woodies, I will say that they hold up much better than the other woodies and provide the goods just as welll as CCIs. Regina showed me what a twister should be like. You guys complain about lack of speed and too much roughness on Mean Streak, but what is you had a ride on Mean Streak that was really intense and was not rough in anyway? That is a good visual of Regina. I will say that Intamin woodies have shown me that they can combine the best twisters(White Cyclone) with great airtime(Thunder Coaster), g's(Regina), and smoothness(Colossos).

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Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:30 AM
PointMan - that sounds pretty interesting...I just hope they don't try to pull off a wooden thrust air ;)

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-Eric
Check out Indiana Beach Online | GlitchCam Returns...if you thought the Subdivision Cam was something, wait till you see this..

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Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:56 PM
I smell S&S vertical woodies ;)

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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean

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