Manta POV (from SeaWorld YouTube channel)

ridemcoaster said:
That would be an awkward design as the train and track are above the riders and not below as it is in Sheikra and Griffon. In order to do that the scoops would have to start from train assembly above the rider and run below the rider towards the ground level, or awkwardly jet out one side of the train which would cause pretty nasty asymmetric drag on one side of the coaster (since its in a bank).

Which, from what I've heard, is exactly why they scrapped that part of the plan.

On a wholly unrelated note, I just got back from a vacation in St. Thomas and I saw a manta jump out of the ocean. It was pretty cool.

They should have one of these rides one day launch. That would be awesome. I also like the dueling idea.

I'm not sure that a launch would be comfortable. Maybe an easy launch like the Moto-coasters, but I wouldn't want a hydraulic launch.

kRaXLeRidAh said:

Jeffrey Seifert said:
I thought there was going to be a little more interaction with the ride and the water--the artist's misconception showed a wingtip splashdown, but I didn't see anything like that in the video. It was hard to tell if it was even over any water. Perhaps if they had just shown the POV I might have seen more.

Oh, don't be so quick to judge. :)

http://nicksvideo.com/manta/Splash_003.jpg

http://nicksvideo.com/manta/Splash_002.jpg

I had a feeling that they went with the water jets, due to one of the pictures on johnnyupsidedown.com. Still looks really nice without the actual splash.

Well I LOVE B&M flying coasters (particularly Tatsu), and this ride looks fantastic. SFMM and Sea World have done what you're suppose to do with this concept, make it about flying.

ApolloAndy said:
I'm not sure that a launch would be comfortable. Maybe an easy launch like the Moto-coasters, but I wouldn't want a hydraulic launch.

I would have to agree with you on that. An intense launch would not be ideal, but a long sustained one bringing you to high speeds i think would be worth trying. Remember you could have the launch one of two ways. either the riders could be in the flying position or on their backs.

Another problem you would face would be that B&M never builds launching coasters or atleast the launch on their coasters. Maybe you would have to go with the flying dutchmen.

Top Thrill Dragster said:

ridemcoaster said:
That would be an awkward design as the train and track are above the riders and not below as it is in Sheikra and Griffon. In order to do that the scoops would have to start from train assembly above the rider and run below the rider towards the ground level, or awkwardly jet out one side of the train which would cause pretty nasty asymmetric drag on one side of the coaster (since its in a bank).

Which, from what I've heard, is exactly why they scrapped that part of the plan.

SeaWorld never had any original intention of having the train make contact with the water.

Rollergator said:

LOL, the ride is the ride. I meant how they'd handle Media Days (for example, in comparison to the media stuff for SheiKra, which seemed a little bit disorganized).

Got it.. Misread your remark.. I still doubt very seriously IB-AB has any concern even with the media days..The parks handle the media event and all that occurs within.. Responsibility falls upon the parks PR group and such.. No IB-AB person steps in and manages and organizes it.. Still same employees..

So sadly, as much as I enjoy blaming IB for silly things that occur, if the media event is disorganized (which I dont think/hope it will be), its the Parks responsibility. Keep in mind, they are still a subsidiary (BEC) and manage most of their internal and PR. IB-AB just holds some, if not most of the purse strings..

But this is good PR, which hopefully translates to $$$ and doubt they would stifle that monetarily.

Honestly, when you deal with many types of media (and in the case of Manta, even from different speaking countries), you going to have some level of dissarray as everyone has their own idea of the "ideal shot". Which almost always throws a monkey wrench in any PR planning.

kRaXLeRidAh said:

SeaWorld never had any original intention of having the train make contact with the water.

Unless of course you take as gold (which I dont) the originial conceptual art that was released about the coaster last year. I could see how it could give one the impression that the Manta's wing skims the water.

For those that want to see what the "wing-dip" visual effect looks like, here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onCzVSJKyAM

John Knotts said:
Well I LOVE B&M flying coasters (particularly Tatsu), and this ride looks fantastic. SFMM and Sea World have done what you're suppose to do with this concept, make it about flying.

So are you saying the 3 B&M flying Superman coasters arent about flying? Last time I checked, Superman flew.

^ No, what I'm saying is the Superman Flyers are too short and lazily designed to be about flying. Tatsu and now Manta are far more creatively designed, in terms of elements, actual fly time and especially, LOCATION.

While I've only been on the Chicago ride, the only flying coaster that I've seen even in photographs that really seems like something intended to simulate flying is Air at Alton Towers.

^ Personally (and I've not been on Air either), I like the idea that if you're going to do this type of ride, you should be fairly high off the ground, giving the sensation of well, flying high off the ground. A flat ride can simulate low to the ground flying.

My problem with the the Superman rides (and the Vekoma models) is that they are so darn slow and boring. If these are all people have to reference for the flying concept, no wonder people think they suck.

And having said that, I do get that some people just can't take the riding position of these rides.

^^Air spends a great deal of the ride "inverted" so that riders are on their backs, not in the flying position. The Vekoma models suffer from the same, especially the first (Stealth, now at Carowinds).

I could be wrong, but I think one of the key reasons flying coasters tend to stay low is it gives the rider a more heighten sense of speed, and that gives more of a thrill. You can travel at slower rates but still give them the perception they are whizzing by.

Kinda like when you are on an airplane at 30K feet looking down at ground.. Seems kinda ho hum... But when coming in for landing at 1/5 the speed everything whooshes by you giving a passenger more a rush (well that and the wonder of "are the wheels down? I cant see them! :) )

Extreme examples I know, but holds its weight at any height difference.

Personally I wouldnt want a flyer high up just for that very reason.

Give the rider the sense of being a ground fighter pilot (son of Ret. AF pilot, hears those stories all the time)

You're wrong. Go take a look at pictures of the three Supermen clones, Tatsu, Manta, and Air. Of those, guess which is the only one that spends a great deal of time close to the ground?

(I'll give you a hint: it's built at a park in the UK that has a height restriction)

"B&M were lazy when they designed Superman." :)

I haven't been on that many flyers, just four. Two Vekoma Flying Dutchmen (Stealth and X-Flight), Tatsu, and Crystal Wings (China's uber-themed version of S:UF), but based on my rides on those coasters, the higher up you are, the better the ride BY FAR.

The Vekoma Flying Dutchmen spend TOO much time having riders on their backs which not only is an awkward experience, but it's wasted potential. In addition, the portions of these coasters that DO face the ground, you're relatively low to the ground, which does not play up the element of fear with your body hanging face down. That's my BIGGEST issue with the Vekoma Flyers. I don't mind that they load slow, or shuffle around that much. They just don't do what the ride concept is all about. Making you feel like you're in flight. Half the time on these rides, you're on your back facing the sky. How is that like flying? And judging from pictures, Air also suffers from this same condition although to no fault of Alton Towers, given their building code height restrictions.

Crystal Wings, while utilizing caverns and flying through hollowed out caves was thrilling, still couldn't match Tatsu just because it did not have the element of height or views.

While I have yet to ride Air, I can confidently say Tatsu as of today, is the only Flyer that truly takes the Flying coaster concept and utilizes it to its full potential with its soaring views and extreme height for majority of the ride duration.

And what Manta lacks in a natural mountainous topography for advantage, I feel like SeaWorld did a great job in implementing elements that do play up the "flight" factor, given that it sits on a flat parcel of land.

For those that HAVE been on Tatsu...you can back me up here. You really feel like this is how a falcon or hawk would feel tumbling through the air over a hillside. I don't get that kind of feeling with the other Flying coasters I've been on. That's just me though.

^ That's what I was trying to say. Thanks.

It's quite a feeling on Tatsu when you realize just how high you are, nearly 300ft above ground level. Not to mention spectacular views!