Magic Kingdom worker makes $13.02 an hour, has worked there for 17 years, lives in hotel

1) be raised with 2 parents...it's that simple

I shouldn't even point out how stupid this comment is but I am. Because, Daaaaaang, you stupid.

ApolloAndy said:

Go Intamin said:

Okay, if you're going to talk about privilege, why not talk about Asian privilege? They, on average, make more money, have a higher education, and have more opportunities than white people. But, it's not due to race, but due to culture.

Wait, what? You contradict your own point. If it's a privilege, it's due to race.

Also, whether or not we make more money and have higher education on average, it is absurd to think we have more opportunities. Aside from very narrow fields in which we might be slightly over represented (engineering), we are way underrepresented in pretty much every other field (including managing engineers and everyone above).

It's an interesting read if you care about such things.

From:
https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21669595-asian-americans-ar...ining-ever

I should also note that "Hey other minorities, why can't you be more like Asians?" is such a tired trope. There are so many other factors at play, like the fact that most Asians currently coming to the US are immigrating relatively well off with high education that it's not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison. I mean, there are PLENTY of poor people in China, so it's obviously not purely a culture thing.

The bar graph that you provided actually confirmed my assessment that Asians, in general, work to get more oppertunities, as only 5.6% of all US citizens are Asian, while 13-25% of each bar graph was Asian. And I'm not saying anyone has privilege, unless they're applying for college. In college applications, Asians get docked 50 points off their SAT, Hispanic/Latino gets 180 bonus and black people get 230 bonus points, meaning a black person can score 280 points lower than an Asian on the SAT, and they're equally qualified to get in, because of the stupid affermitive action rule.

Also, Tek, shouldn't a parent realize that raising a child alone isn't a good idea? It doesn't even have to be a biological parent, but 2 parents. It makes a huge difference, believe it or not.

You said be raised by two parents. It's not the person being raised that makes that decision. And regardless of howanymparents you have SHOULDN'T have an effect on whether you're successfully able to become middle class. None of the three things you mentioned should except mmmmaybe #3.

Tekwardo said:

And regardless of howanymparents you have SHOULDN'T have an effect on whether you're successfully able to become middle class.

Yeah but "should" and "do" are two different things.

If we can point to studies that show socioeconomic status affects later outcomes, (I mean, aren't we all saying the birth lottery SHOULDN'T affect your path - and that it DOES is the problem) then we should be able to point to studies that show one's parental situation at home affects later outcomes.

I don't really agree with Go Intamin's post (it's making points I don't necessarily agree with and seems to be making a moral plea), but we're getting really close to cherry picking studies and facts and ideas that support what we're supposed to be outraged by...and inequality (of all kinds - race, class, wealth, whatever) is the flavor du jour while stable, traditional homelife is so yesterday.

I couldn't have said it any better myself Gonch. Anyway, I'm not trying to say anything about one race being better than the other, as the main point in trying to make is that things happen for a reason based on different variables. Some of these are controllable (not having children outside of marriage, graduating high school), and some are not(growing up with 2 parents) (at least, not controllable by the person affected).

Oh I get the should and the do. In this instance I'm of the mind that it's not 'that simple' like Intamin says because one can't choose to be a two parent child. Skin color and gender and sexuality shouldn't affect employment either but it does, and in some states it's still ok to fire someone because of sexuality. That's insane. Regardless of your moral standing on the issue, and I support anyone taking a moral stand for or against, as is their right, firing or not employing someone because of that is mind blowing. Sex and race too.

Edit to respond, then how come you said it was just that simple? Obviously it isn't. So which is it?

I think all he was saying was that, all else being equal, kids that grow up in a stable, two-parent household have a better shot at life than kids that don't.

Well, it is that simple as long as you have parents that think of their children and the possible ramifications of their actions, which again, leads back into a culture of different areas of the USA having varying levels of success.

Go Intamin said
The bar graph that you provided actually confirmed my assessment that Asians, in general, work to get more oppertunities, as only 5.6% of all US citizens are Asian, while 13-25% of each bar graph was Asian.

For one very specific field and only at the lower levels of that field. Do you think
you see that in business? Law? Government? Entertainment? Sports?

Your argument is essentially: "Look, a couple of Asians overcame / were allowed into the lower levels of one very specific field, so there must not be a problem."

Go Intamin said
And I'm not saying anyone has privilege, unless they're applying for college. In college applications, Asians get docked 50 points off their SAT, Hispanic/Latino gets 90 bonus and black people get 230 bonus points, meaning a black person can score 280 points lower than an Asian on the SAT, and they're equally qualified to get in, because of the stupid affermitive action rule.

Source? As a stereotypical Asian parent who follows these things very closely, I understand your general point, but you're quoting awfully specific numbers that I've never seen.

*If* that's factual (working at a public University, I have serious doubts)...

THEN, the whole reverse discrimination witch-hunt currently in progress *almost* makes sense.

I have more reservations than the people at Standing Rock...

Go Intamin said:
Well, it is that simple as long as you have parents that think of their children and the possible ramifications of their actions, which again, leads back into a culture of different areas of the USA having varying levels of success.

Cmon, just say what you mean, you left a few racial, sorry, "cultural" words off that paragraph.

You act like there's not another 'culture' that actively tries to keep minorities in the same situations. That's where the does comes in where it should not.

You're also trying to turn this ('cultural' upbringing) into a moral issue. Morally you shouldn't be treated differently because you quit school, have one parent, etc. But you seem to keep saying that someone whose parents don't follow your morals and is a member of another race is at fault because...what? Yes, I agree that that's reality. The argument is that it shouldn't be and arguing that the parent(s) are/were making immoral (in your opinion) decisions shouldn't affect someone from getting ahead.

My dad grew up in Youngstown. I still have relatives who live there. My wife has relatives in western PA. Both areas have what I would say is a culture of poverty fueled by destructive decisions. Dropping out of school. Failing to obtain any real marketable skills. Having kids before financially stable. Multiple divorces. Issues in the legal system. All of those things make being poor more likely (though certainly not a guarantee and avoiding all of them doesn't necessarily guarantee not being poor though it against does increase the chances from what I see). And I have seen it in multiple generations almost as if its some type of birthright (and in a way it is). And none of this has to do with race as all of the people I am talking about are white.

And on the flip side, having gone to a number of science and math competitions with my kids over the past several years, you see very clearly that Asian kids are overrepresented at such competitions (and often times even more overrepresented on the winners stands). And then if you go to sporting events, Asian kids tend (from what I have seen) to be underrepresented there. Its a matter of priorities. That to some degree is a racial thing but its really more to me a priority/culture thing. Some families stress education more than others. Not all Asians families do that and obviously there are a lot of non-Asian families who stress education. Kids can do it on their own but its more difficult (from what I have seen) when the parents do not care.

ApolloAndy said:

Go Intamin said
The bar graph that you provided actually confirmed my assessment that Asians, in general, work to get more oppertunities, as only 5.6% of all US citizens are Asian, while 13-25% of each bar graph was Asian.

For one very specific field and only at the lower levels of that field. Do you think
you see that in business? Law? Government? Entertainment? Sports?

Your argument is essentially: "Look, a couple of Asians overcame / were allowed into the lower levels of one very specific field, so there must not be a problem."

No, what I'm saying is that from the data YOU provided, Asians are overrepresented, based on their population data, while every other race in the chart is underrepresented.

Go Intamin said
And I'm not saying anyone has privilege, unless they're applying for college. In college applications, Asians get docked 50 points off their SAT, Hispanic/Latino gets 90 bonus and black people get 230 bonus points, meaning a black person can score 280 points lower than an Asian on the SAT, and they're equally qualified to get in, because of the stupid affermitive action rule.

Source? As a stereotypical Asian parent who follows these things very closely, I understand your general point, but you're quoting awfully specific numbers that I've never seen.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-a...y,amp.html

Jesus ...this thread is still going?

No one is making you click on it. Unless they are. If so, blink twice for yes and I'll call the police.

I really think it's a stretch too far to say certain cultures don't value present parents or stable families or education or hard work. I would say that there's a high correlation of absent parents, poor education, and criminality with poverty and there's a high correlation of poverty with certain racial groups, largely for factors outside of their control.