Loop with no Harrnes

Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:07 PM
Well at dorney park the roller coaster the lazer has a loop and your are held in by a lap bar why don ' t more parks have this?
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:30 PM
I know Super Dooper Looper @Hershey Park had only a lapbar.... I remember I was very small and remember almost falling out!

Alan Jacyszyn
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SFDLnet opening March 15th on Coasterbuzz!

http://www.sfdl.net
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:43 PM
The Scorpion at BGT just has a lapbar.
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SFNE 2001
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:47 PM
If there is only a verticle loop element(no corkscrews, boomerangs, sidewinders, etc.,) you do not need a shoulder harness. Or so the engineers say.
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:53 PM
SOB at PKI has a loop with no harness.

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Bill Yost a.k.a. THE BEASTmaster
www.geocities.com/byostie

Can you take me higher? (CREED)
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 4:58 PM
I remember the Tidal Wave just had like a belt or something. My first upside down coaster.
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 5:00 PM
Most Schwarzkopf loopers were built without OTSR's because they just contain vertical loops. Although a few of them have added OTSR's for reasons beyond me.
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 5:23 PM
The loop on SOB is pretty cool, especialy with no OTSR.

I would imagine, without the OTSR on a corkscrew or something of the like it would be realy uncomfortable. There are plenty of laterals in effect while going through those elements, and you would probably get injured some how, but I'm not entirely sure.

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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:04 PM
What does OTSR stand for?
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:15 PM
Over The Shoulder Restraints

Lance Baker

Nitro Will Rule
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:16 PM
they should have just made a lap bar change on the phantom
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:21 PM
I don't understand this attitude. I keep hearing vague comments speculating that inversions other than a vertical loop "can't" be done without a shoulder bar, but nobody can explain why.
I submit that the reason it hasn't been done is that Schwarzkopf never bothered to build a Corkscrew when he was building looping coasters, and other coaster builders have just not bothered to build loopers without shoulder bars. Well, except one, anyway. Cedar Point put up a coaster last year that has three non-vertical-loop inversions and no shoulder bars, but they won't admit it.
All of the forces that we find on various looping coasters have been employed on coasters without shoulder bars, so I can't see any reason why shoulder bars are actually necessary on any sit-down looping coaster. The worst thing is that securing riders by a shoulder bar is not a very good way to do it, from an anatomical standpoint, meaning a shoulder bar doesn't really restrain some riders the way it should. Unfortunately, in 1999, we got a dramatic demonstration of that on a drop tower...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 7:06 PM
Bravo, Dave! I totally agree about Millennium Force. I've yet to ride any coaster that could not have done just fine with lap bars.

This reminds me of an interesting exchange I watched in Setpoint's booth at IAAPA, where they had a Super Saturator car hanging. (see: http://www.coasterbuzz.com/features/iaapa2000/gallery/img.asp?img=ia00setswing1.jpg ) I forget where the attendees were from, but the first thing out of their mouth was bogus speculation that someone could get out of the restraints. This "suit" sat in the car, buckled down, and immediately tried to demonstrate why they needed higher seat dividers and such (I would note that he couldn't move his fat rear anywhere out of that restraint, and I doubt smaller people could either).

Anyway, where I'm going with this, is that there is this perception that is totally baseless and without explanation. As this guy at the Setpoint booth showed me, there is little need for some kind of six-point aircraft harness.

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Jeff (who thinks that the SwingThing is the most comfortable ride he's ever sat in)
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Sunday, February 25, 2001 7:16 PM
What about Arrow's new harnesses? They seem to be like a healthy compromise between lap bars and over the shoulder restraints.

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Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
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Monday, February 26, 2001 3:29 AM
I like the design of Arrow's new restraints. They're basically Togo Standup restraints radically improved. I can't judge since I've never sat in one, but I likes what I sees.

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
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Monday, February 26, 2001 4:02 AM
They're fairly comfortable, as far as anything over your shoulders goes. The key thing is that your head has a lot of room to breath. I'm not crazy about the giant leg separator, though.

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/features/iaapa2000/gallery/img.asp?img=ia00arrowrestraint.jpg

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Monday, February 26, 2001 4:31 AM
You know, for all the complaining we like to do about TOGO, one thing I have to say for them: Their stand-up restraint design is really quite good. It's poorly sized for American bodies (it doesn't allow for enough space between the seat and the top of the shoulder bar) but apart from that, it's a good design. Particularly in that if all the latches fail, it's still virtually impossible to fall out.

Jeff...interesting observation about Setpoint's design, which I didn't try out. One of the things that people tend to forget is that if your feet are dangling, you aren't going to get any leverage that way. I think that's why B&M elevated the seats in their Speedcoasters...it is physically impossible to stand up on a ride if your feet don't reach the floor. The very fact that feet are dangling allows for a dramatic simplification of the restraint with no reduction in effectiveness. I want to see Setpoint's seat running on something like Raptor... :)

Regarding the Arrow design...Did you notice that the two seat molds they had on display were different? One is set up for a more or less traditional seating position; the other has a lower 'well' for the legs, which will put the rider in a slightly more vertical position. I don't know what difference it makes, as I didn't sit in either seat. That booth was too busy and too mysterious compared to the 1999 show when I had a very nice chat with their design engineer about the ArrowBATic car.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 2/26/2001. ***
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Monday, February 26, 2001 4:36 AM
sfot shockwave has back to back loops with no harness
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Monday, February 26, 2001 5:23 AM
Mindbender at SFoG is another one. I really think I remember feeling like falling out towards the end of the ride. Anyways, shoulder restraints might hurt because there's forces at work there:). There was another Schwartzkopf in Japan I think, something Express or Moon Highway, that looked pretty crazy to have just a lap bar. There were pictures of the man (Schwartzkopf) riding it solo with a big smile on his face.
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