Looks like SFGAm will be getting Chang.

If you call this number, a recording from Gurnee states on May 26th at the zoning meeting, the park has asked for a height variance to build a 150ft tall coaster in the old space shuttle america area. I seriously doubt that is a GCI.:)


My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

150' GCI.


Jason Hammond's avatar

I would think this would also mean the end of Iron Wolf.

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Valleyfair Enthusiast's avatar

^ if it is, I will be a very happy camper.... it's pretty rare to find me complaining about pain on a coaster, but ouch!

Good riddance.

Chance W Mitchell
2009: 43 parks; 73 days; 251 coasters; 2462 coaster laps; 1 epic summer


Let's not completely count out the floorless conversion. Iron Wolf could get Chang's trains next year and whatever Chang gets named or themed to gets 3 new floorless trains.

My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

Unlikely Chitown, highly unlikely.

I don't know. With the way Shapiro has done some conversions to existing coasters, it might be possible.
Hey, certain individuals on these forums were confident Chang wasn't going to SFGAm. :)

My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

CoasterDemon's avatar

I totally see Chang being converted into sit-down. Why would Great America want another PAINFUL stand up coaster!?

I hope they put one of the turns (lift turn?) around the Sky Trek Tower - kinda like what the other Great America was gonna do with the GCI coaster that faded away.

As for Iron Wolf - I got my once a year ride last week, and yes still very painful (all over!). Remember though, the ride was once a kick butt smooth machine! The track is still there. It's those trains...

Timber-Rider's avatar

I may be mistaken, but, isn't Kumba at Bush Gardens a sitdown coaster? I don't see any reason why Chang could not have trains like that. It is pretty much the same type of coaster, minus the zero g-roll.

It seems to me, that would be a less expensive way for the park to go, rather than converting to a floorless. If they are really daring, they might even try to use Raging bull type trains, and nix the shoulder harness. But, that is just wishfull thinking.

LostKause's avatar

I have retained this info from previous discussions here on CoasterBuzz, and this is what I believe to be true...

Chang, and other B&M stand-ups were designed so that riders' heartline were at a certain height above the track, so a sit-down coaster is probably out of the question...

...But floorless trains put the riders in such a position that is not so different from the stand-up riding position. I'm pretty sure that B&M would have a say in whether or not a different style of trains would be a good idea for Chang. My guess is that the track in the station would have to be replaced for such a conversion, which creates even more expense.

Another words, I just don't think it will happen.

Besides, I am responsible for the rumor about Cedar Point turning Mantis into a floorless coaster, which probably has escalated into this rumor. I started it in 2000, during Millennium Mania, when I worked on Mantis. I was just having some fun with the silly coaster enthusiasts. I didn't expect that anyone would believe me at all.

^This discussion has been brought up before and even Dave (Rideman) from what I remember said that this could be converted.

People bring up the heartline argument but think about this on a standup. 6ft 4 in Johnny is in the same row as 4ft 6 in Danny on a standup. Do you really think their center of heartline is in the same spot or even close?

Don't count anything out. Look what is happening with Texas Giant. I won't dispute anything at this point.

My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.

obxKevin's avatar

Let alone the fact that the heartline of the person on the outer left is not even near the heatline of the person on the outer right. 4 foot difference? Even more on a 10-across coaster like Griffon or Sheikra.

Don't think it will but, stranger things have happened with this company.

The poster formerly known as 'Zcorpius.' Joined 2004

I'm not sure how this whole heartline thing got started. I believe when B&M designed Batman, they discussed how the heartline roll (the element between the vertical loops) was designed with the rider's heart as the center of the roll. Somehow over the years, enthusiasts have taken this to mean that the entire coaster was designed that way, but that's really not the case. Look at the typical elements in a coaster--drop, vertical loop, diving loop, corkscrew, etc.--they are all pretty much the same regardless of the position of the rider. There's absolutely no reason why you can't put a different train on Chang. Tell me how this vertical loop is different from this vertical loop. And let's not forget that B&M does make pedestal sit-down trains that give you all the openness and "feet off the floor" experiences of a floorless train but would not require all the station modifications that converting to a floorless would.

That said, I have no knowledge about a conversion to sit-down trains, I'm just saying that there is no reason why it cannot be done.

Last edited by Jeffrey Seifert,
DaveStroem's avatar

Tell me how this vertical loop is different from this vertical loop.

One is green and the other is yellow. :)

Last edited by DaveStroem,

Before you can be older and wiser you first have to be young and stupid.

delan's avatar

Hehehe, actually Kumba is more cyan than green. But anyhow...carry on...

LostKause's avatar

Well, my argument against it wasn't that it couldn't be done. It was that it would be expensive, and probably need the approval of B&M if the park wanted to keep insurance low, or at all.

I never really thought about the heartline not mattering. That's possible.

I also never thought about the new trains that are not floorless, but still lift riders off the track the same height as a floorless.

I argued at one time that it COULD be done, and some people argued back that it couldn't. Now I bring the info that I learned from a previous thread to this one, and argue that it CAN'T be done, and people argue that it can.

I love CoasterBuzz. lol

My argument for the change is since Chang is going into SFGam wont the park have to build a new station for the Chang and couldnt the modifications be made there?
If that is true Im sure they could take all but one of Scream's trains since when does Scream need more then one train.

Bolliger/Mabillard for President in '08 NOT Dinn/Summers

That would mean having to close the ride down if the train has problems and at some point each year where they annually work on each train which I guess now with 3 trains the just work on each train 1 at a time and run the others.

Last edited by YoshiFan,
DantheCoasterman's avatar

...I think he was kidding. ;)


Carrie M.'s avatar

LostKause said:

I love CoasterBuzz. lol

Aww, and CoasterBuzz loves you. ;)

"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin

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