Lightning Loops

Friday, January 18, 2002 4:36 AM
I know that the bottom of lightning loops is at frontier city, called diamondback, and is operating, but why is the other half at SFA, called python, not operating, and in storage? Why just let it sit there and not operate it?
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Friday, January 18, 2002 5:40 AM
Python was removed after the 98 season to make way for Two Face in 99.I  wonder why the park hasn't rebuilt it yet as well,if they are not  going to rebuild it then I think it would be better if they just removed it from park property all together rather than just leave it sitting there like that.One possible reason why it was not rebuilt is simply because the ride was never really popular to begin with.
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Friday, January 18, 2002 5:52 AM
I know why they havn't rebuilt it! They are moving Viper there! Accually I doubt it, but some people were sugesting that SF might move Viper... err Tidal Wave there. I guess they didn't do any research.

I myself am doubting it would be rebuilt for 2 reasons. 1. It is old and dated. 2. They have Two Face, which has got to be a better shuttle.

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I have no signature.

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Friday, January 18, 2002 6:07 AM
It should be re-built, and if SFKK doesn't get Viper, er, Tidal Wave, then they should get Python...No shuttles in a park that is THAT land-locked is absurd.  I would THINK that even SF would realize that KK needs "compact" layout rides...
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PoTP acolyte - remove fear to reply
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
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Friday, January 18, 2002 6:21 AM
I have heard a lot about troublesome maintenance with the Arrow shuttles, and I have witnessed it, at times.  I heard that Arrow quit making parts a couple years ago.  And since the launch mechanisms contain so much moving parts, it might be hard to keep running.  Some may call me crazy, but I will totally miss these coasters when they become extinct, the thought of it makes me cringe.
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It ain't Oprah 'til it's Oprah
Oprah should call Dave.
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Friday, January 18, 2002 6:49 AM
Multi-inversion Two Face or old Arrow single-loop shutte. Boy there's a hard choice. Not!
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If you have to figure out how to ride a coaster to be comfortable, then that's not a coaster worth riding.
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Friday, January 18, 2002 7:12 AM
Schwarzkopf shuttles 100, Arrow shuttles - I've yet to ride.  They certainly take quite a beating here on the 'buzz, though.  What's up with the Arrow shuttles?
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PoTP acolyte - remove fear to reply
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
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Friday, January 18, 2002 7:19 AM
Out of curiosity...does anyone know how the launch mechanism worked on Arrow shuttles? Was it a counterweight or drive tires??
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"I'll bet that thing hits 5 Gs going through that loop.....faaar ooouut!"
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Friday, January 18, 2002 8:08 AM
This is truly sad to hear. I was lucky enough to be able to ride it when it was still at SFGAdv and honestly, I have not encountered anything as exhilarating (or scary!) as that run back into the loop. You couldn't know when to expect it at all, and the steep drop was incredible.

If I remember correctly, the ride used a motor to push a small cart (and the train) to the end of the platform (where it shook the whole structure as it hit the end of the track) and a higher powered one did it in reverse to get the train backwards to the higher platform.

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Friday, January 18, 2002 9:05 AM

rollergator said:
"They certainly take quite a beating here on the 'buzz, though.  What's up with the Arrow shuttles?!"

Nothing! Arrow shuttles are great! No, not as good as the Schwarzkopf ones, but I like them better than the generic Boomerangs. The launch is pretty boring, but the anticipation leading up to the drop is great. The actual drop has the best airtime of any steel looper. Ejector! The loop is very smooth (no headbanging), and you get more airtime on the other side. Even though it is strange how Arrow decided to have a reverse launch, instead of a spike, it gives a unique sensation.

-l(long live Arrow)!
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"Go banana!"-Ralph

*** This post was edited by PT300 on 1/18/2002. ***

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Friday, January 18, 2002 11:07 AM
PT300 nailed it, and if you think they are dead, look at the condition of Sidewinder at Elitch Gardens! What a beauty! And I just rode Afterburner at Fun Spot (the prototype) after it had sat for a few years. So with the $$ and people willing to fix them, Arrow lauched loops will indeed continue to operate.

I for one cannot take more than one trip at a time on Face/Off, and 3 times in a row on a Vekoma boomerang is asking for trouble! they are just too disorienting. But I'll do 30 laps on Afterburner in an hour (thanks to their Flyer's anti-snap policy). Or 50 on Tidal Wave (RIP) on a fairly busy SFGAm day......:) It's really the addition of the twisting backwards motion that gets me.

On another note, the platforms on the launched loops are the same height (around 55'), but have a slight descent towards the ends. While watching one test, you can see it roll back to the bumper. Motors were either 100hp or 150hp depending on the date it was built. Does anyone have pics of Kings Island's Screamin' Demon (not of Camden Park days)? It's on my list of coasters to model, and I don't have a single shot, only memories!
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Don't.....look.....back! The Headless Horseman awaits you in 2002!
Model coasters and rides

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Friday, January 18, 2002 11:51 AM
Does anyone know where to find pictures of it while it was still at GAdv?
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Friday, January 18, 2002 1:21 PM
I know I always thought LNM @ BGW was real smooth compared to the mega-loopers.  I think vertical loops are pretty easy to do without banging, but Arrow's transitions always seem...sudden.  The corkscrews, other than PKI's Vortex, bang a bit - I like the element at slower speed.
Can't replacement parts be machined?  It seems like nobody wants to maintain anything, just tear it down and replace it.  (I realize I sound like I'm a hundred or so).  Where's the Junkyard Warriors crowd when it comes to maintainance/repair...and I hate to see so many great older rides sitting in storage or SBNO!
Oh, and shuttle loopers are WAY better if you keep your hands up throughout the ride!!!
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PoTP acolyte - remove fear to reply
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!

*** This post was edited by rollergator on 1/18/2002. ***

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Friday, January 18, 2002 1:28 PM

janfrederick said:
"Out of curiosity...does anyone know how the launch mechanism worked on Arrow shuttles? Was it a counterweight or drive tires??

Neither. Just a high-torque DC motor run at something like 150% of rated load for long enough to push a pusher-car out of the station. Then gravity does the rest, which is why the station is 50' in the air.

(You can operate DC traction motors at 150% for short intervals, which is how Arrow did it. AC motors of that era don't have enough startup torque to do the job.)

I don't know what the HP rating is on those motors.

In the ancient Gary Kyriazi film, America Screams (that's the one hosted by Vincent Price) there is a sequence shot at the Arrow proving grounds. That segment includes not only film of the working model of the corkscrewing suspended coaster, but if you look carefully there is a drawing on the wall that appears to be a Launched Loop coaster. Only instead of a loop, it appears to be more of a Corkscrew element, with the stations side by side. It doesn't take much imagination to turn that into a Boomerang, does it?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Friday, January 18, 2002 3:13 PM
I grew up in the Bay Area. When I was a kid, I remember seeing what looked like a shuttle loop just beyond the trees when the company was in Mountain View, CA (behind the old Moffit Drive-Ins and right next to NASA/Ames I might add). I think real estate simply got too expensive there and they needed a lot more room than they had.
A little trivia for ya's....Microsoft built its bay area offices on that site a couple years ago.
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"I'll bet that thing hits 5 Gs going through that loop.....faaar ooouut!"

*** This post was edited by janfrederick on 1/18/2002. ***

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Friday, January 18, 2002 5:24 PM
Dave! Buddy! You don't happen to have that on tape do ya? I did years ago and remember watching that suspended model (while asking how in the #$@&! they were going to pull it off). I'll even drop off a tape for ya to put it on!
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Don't.....look.....back! The Headless Horseman awaits you in 2002!
Model coasters and rides
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Friday, January 18, 2002 8:45 PM
America Screams is likely my favorite coaster tape. On day I'll have to *liberate* my mother's copy :)

Anyway, my thoughts on why they haven rebuilt 'Python': Wouldn't they have to make it ADA compliant upon rebuilding? Perhaps they dont feel that the investment of an elevator on a ride that wasnt very popular in the first place is warranted. Besides, if they gave *me* the choice of Batwing or Python, I'd take Batwing as a new for 2001 addition (no argument for 2000 & S:ROS). Now a return for 2002, in lieu of nothing would be excellent
jeremy
--patiently awaiting a pain-free ride on Joker's Jinx

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Saturday, January 19, 2002 2:04 PM
Makes you wonder why it's just sitting there in storage.
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