Lap Bar for Arrow's Swinging Coasters?

Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:54 PM
I wonder why they all have over the shouler restraints? They have enough cent. force to keep the riders in their seats. Lap Bars is better, so the riders can wave while they are swinging. Can u guys tell me why they cant have lap bars for suspended coasters?

Thanks
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SFNE's Superman's the best!

*** This post was edited by XFan on 2/28/2002. ***

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:56 PM
Nope

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I've traded in my 2000 Giovanola for a 2002 Arrow X4D :)
My other car is now an Arrow X4D!

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:58 PM
Swinging Coasters??? Do you mean Suspended coasters? Anyways I belive arrow decided to use OTSR's because it would be a lot eiser to set up the locking mechnisim because of the train's design... but don't quote me on that, just a hunch...
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Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:18 PM
no idea.

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SFOGeorgia.
Can't wait for Superman: Ultimate Flight
Drachen Fire, RIP: 1992-1998 Dismantled 2002

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:54 PM
I have heard that the origional design was supposed to have inversion, but their was too much stress on the trains because of the swinging design. They just decided to leave the trains with the OTSRs because they didnt want to change the designs.
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Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:07 PM

SFOGeorgia, loadedG: If you can't contribute, it's often best not to post. (Just some friendly advice)

There are at least 2 reasons for the OTSRs: as mentioned above, the original was supposed to have a flat-spin style inversion. Arrow built a working model that had this inversion. When it came time to build a full size prototype it was gone, for many reasons. After losing the inversion, it was most likely lazyness as to why the OTSRs stayed. They pretty much redesigned their looping rolling stock to create the suspended trains.

Has anyone seen pics of the floorless replacement train Vekoma is putting on Arrow's Vampire? They look great!

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- Peabody

*** This post was edited by Peabody on 2/28/2002. ***

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 2:33 PM

Arrow was not lazy, so watch your comments. It is based on the center of gravity in the car, with the harness balancing out with the weight of the rider.

And second, the system is in the production works as it is similar to the exisiting trains.

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:10 PM

I did not mean to offend, Agent Johnson. I think you read that in a different tone than I intended. With the exception of the Hyper/mine train cars Arrow's cars never changed from a visible standpoint for 20 years. Why? My dad complained about the trains on the Corkscrew at KBF. At 180 lbs 6'0 feet he thought they were uncomfortable. In the early 80's when I started riding Arrow loopers, the seats/OTSRs were uncomfortable for me too. Many friends expressed the same feelings. In '86 I found Iron Dragon better for people's height, but still thought the OTSRs were not needed.

Lazyness is probably not the right word, but why did it take until X/Arrowbatic to get a comfortable restraint out of Arrow? (While we're at it, why did it take them over 20 years to change the size of their inversions instead or putting the same loop higher in the air?) Do you think that after losing the inversion in the original suspended they just felt like not worrying about a better restraint since they had that system already?

On a related note, has anyone seen drawing/pictures of the Schwarzkopf suspended trains? I would like to know if Anton wanted shoulder restraints on his.

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- Peabody

*** This post was edited by Peabody on 2/28/2002. ***

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:47 PM

Peabody said:
(While we're at it, why did it take them over 20 years to change the size of their inversions instead or putting the same loop higher in the air?)



Probably because there wasn't a park willing to complain about it.

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If the shoe fits, find another one.

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:48 PM

Certainly car balance (more likely moment) could be obtained with a little ballast at the right elevation without having to use OTSRs. I suspect that some of the motivation for OTSRs may have been a desire to comfort nervous park owners and their insurers/lawyers since many seem to think that OTSRs are a cure all for ride hazards.

ie. Disney's lawyers wanting OTSRs on Splash Mountain. Of course, the worst injury I've ever seen of a coaster (still fairly minor) was caused by an OTSR.

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:09 PM
Link to the Schwarzkopf suspended trains.
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Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:22 PM
NICE! I knew Anton wouldn't go for OTSRs!

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- Peabody

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:54 PM
I think he built great stuff, but we are still baffled on that design.
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Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:59 PM
How so? Do you not think it was a good design?

Also, why did Arrow use Schwarzkopf style track on their suspended prototype? At least 50% of the track seemed to be that style. I would doubt there is a connection since that was pre-Bat, and Schwarzkopf's was post Bat, pre BBW, right?

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- Peabody

*** This post was edited by Peabody on 2/28/2002. ***

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:09 PM
Peabody, or anyone..do you have a link to pics of the new Vekoma trains on Vampire?

I think thats a great idea to change the trains. i wonder if other parks will follow?

I also wonder if it were possible to design a train with both styles of seating? Half with whats there now, and the other half of the train with the open seating.

*** This post was edited by coasterfreaky on 3/1/2002. ***

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:12 PM
The new trains on Vampire look interesting. I'm hoping to hit it this summer the day before the ACE tour officially gets underway.

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--Greg
"The collective women in your life have more baggage than a Samsonite factory..."
My page

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:03 PM

The restraints on the suspended Arrows are easily the easiest to check on any coaster. It's the only large ride that Cedar Point can operate quickly with only two people on the platform. You run by, grab the handle, and you're good to go. Can't argue with that.

And by the way XFan... "u" is a letter, not a word. I'd appreciate it if you re-read the terms of service and post with complete words. Thanks.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:10 PM

Lap bars are not feesible additions to suspended coasters.

Why? It's easy. All the hardware for lap bars must reside under the train. Suspendeds require nothing under the floorboard except a station guide wheel and a manual restraint release.

OTSR's hardware lies mostly in the headrest area of the seat and on suspendeds flows up the car's arm to the chassis above.

Lap bars would require hardware that would weigh the bottom of the train down and restrict swinging.

Shaggy

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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.

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Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:49 PM
After looking at Anton's trains, I think there's got to be a way to do lapbars on Arrow's suspendeds. The added "ballast" might impede free-swinging to some degree, but I don't *think* it would really be that restrictive considering all the weight of the cars and riders already rests below the track. Not that I know any of the complicated engineering involved...I think it would be a big improvement on the suspendeds with good visuals like BBW, since the OTSR's seem to limit your peripheral vision. Most likely, we'll never know, since it's doubtful any park would pay for something most people would never even notice...

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Florida needs an Intamin and/or CCI soon...PLEASE!
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!

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Friday, March 1, 2002 5:13 AM
Well Shaggy, that's not entirely true. I guess the real question is where is the line drawn between an OSTR and a lapbar? For example, take a look at these pics of the Nickelodeon Flying Super Saturator ( http://www.swingthing.com/flyingss.html ). While the restraints definitely come down from above the head of the rider, I do not think that any one here would refer to them as OTSRs. In fact, looking at them in there locked positions most of us would indeed call them "lapbars".

It all depends on how you look at things.
jeremy
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Besides, if we were really shutting down people we disagreed with, would Jeremy (2Hostyl) still be around? :) I think not. - Jeff 1/24/02

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