Knotts Berry Farm and Future Expansion

Monday, February 2, 2009 10:06 AM

I was reviewing a satellite map of Knotts Berry Farm, and I noticed that this park truly seems to be out of room to accommodate a new attraction of size. Three sides border the street, and come very close to the street for that matter. It’s possible some buildings could be torn down on the south side (4th side) to accommodate a few attractions of size, but I’m not sure what these buildings are...and the Knotts hotel is very close. Heck, even the main parking lot is across a busy street. Unless some old attractions are torn down, what are the possibilities here to expand? Maybe there is more room than what appears, but to me, the park seems to be quite crammed. For example, how could a hyper coaster ever fit in the layout?

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Monday, February 2, 2009 11:04 AM
eightdotthree's avatar

There is always more room, just ask Cedar Point. :)


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Monday, February 2, 2009 11:11 AM
Soggy's avatar

If by "hyper" you mean 200 footer, they already have one, and they'll probably not get another. They do own the dirt lot to the West, (other side of Western Ave) which is where they store track and supplies for new attractions. That's a fairly small street, (well, smaller than Beach or La Palma anyway) but I doubt they'd ever actually get the city to allow them to dead-end that street for expansion.

They managed to get a large inverted in there by going up and over existing things, they could probably go that route again above Bigfoot Rapids or even parts of Ghost Town. I doubt they will be getting a major coaster for a while.


Pass da' sizzrup, bro!

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Monday, February 2, 2009 11:13 AM

Whenever I have doubt that parks have room for expansion, I look at pictures like these to ease my mind:

http://www.rcdb.com/ig468.htm?picture=2


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Monday, February 2, 2009 11:47 AM

By hyper, I mean something similar to Diamondback or Behemoth. But that was just an example...I mean really any adult coaster of size. Knotts has done a good job of building over other things (Silver Bullet, Pony Express), but I don't think you can continue to rely on this. Cedar Fair has done great things with this park... it would be a shame for them to be landlocked to do really anything else of size. Granted, it is what it is, but I was wondering if any locals know of a possible solution to gain more space.

Last edited by Martling, Monday, February 2, 2009 3:56 PM
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Monday, February 2, 2009 12:06 PM

You don't call a B&M invert an adult coaster? Seriously? What about Ghostrider, and Xcelerator?


2017 Trips: WDW, Dollywood, Cedar Point, KI, SDC, BGW, BGT, SWO, Universal Orlando

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Monday, February 2, 2009 12:37 PM

Well, obviously Xcelerator is an 'adult' coaster, but I'm not sure I'd characterize it as a true hyper, given that it's really just a top hat. I guess it just depends on the semantics.


My author website: mgrantroberts.com

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Monday, February 2, 2009 12:46 PM
birdhombre's avatar

d_port_12E said:
Whenever I have doubt that parks have room for expansion, I look at pictures like these to ease my mind:

http://www.rcdb.com/ig468.htm?picture=2

Knott's is already sort of like that. Here's a picture I took in 2007.

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Monday, February 2, 2009 3:58 PM

Touchdown: read my post. I'm talking about space for expansion at Knotts...not referencing any coasters that are currently in the park.

Good picture "birdhombre"...that's exactly what I mean.

Last edited by Martling, Monday, February 2, 2009 4:06 PM
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Monday, February 2, 2009 4:28 PM

^ Knotts will continue to do what Knotts does. Remove old attractions to install new ones. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

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Monday, February 2, 2009 7:45 PM

birdhombre said:


Knott's is already sort of like that. Here's a picture I took in 2007.

I agree....However, this is only a small section of the park.

Just saying there are creative ways to build rides and use land that we couldn't even imagine.

Last edited by d_port_12E, Tuesday, February 3, 2009 8:04 AM
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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:52 AM

Well the Buena Park Mall is finally for sale and open to redevelopment. Too bad Cedar Fair seems not to be in a position at the moment to buy it, use it for parking, and then expand with attractions into their current parking lots.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 2:13 AM

There isn't much I can add to this discussion. I have wondered about all of the points which all of you have brought up. I live 11 miles from KBF and have enjoyed going there for many years. They have been building new rides consistently since the mid 90's. I hope they do not have to stop due to lack of space. I also hope that the Silver Bullet is not the last large coaster they build in the foreseeable future. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they find a way to keep expanding.


My mother (1946-2009) once asked me why I go to Magic Mountain so much. I said I feel the most alive when I'm on a roller coaster.
2010 total visits: SFMM-9, KBF-2
2010 total ride laps: 437

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 2:21 AM

By hyper, I mean something similar to Diamondback or Behemoth. But that was just an example...I mean really any adult coaster of size. Knotts has done a good job of building over other things (Silver Bullet, Pony Express), but I don't think you can continue to rely on this. Cedar Fair has done great things with this park... it would be a shame for them to be landlocked to do really anything else of size. Granted, it is what it is, but I was wondering if any locals know of a possible solution to gain more space.

Eh. A lot of people don't know this, but it was mentioned in some kind of interview right after Xcelerator's ground breaking...JT Falfas said he wanted a 200-foot roller coaster "like the Magnum at Cedar Point", but seeing as how the park had limited space to work with, the park approached Intamin for a solution.

It was decided that the only way to achieve a height of 200 or so feet on a roller coaster feasibly in the proposed footprint they were given to work with (Windjammer's location) was to do away with a conventional lift system and use a propulsion system. But at the time, electromagnetic propulsion systems generally required a great distance to achieve higher speeds.

Thus, the hydraulic propulsion system was developed for what eventually became Xcelerator. This system was designed with the intention of providing a solution to Knott's "hypercoaster" with extreme space constraints -- allowing vehicles to reach a VERY high speed within a SHORT distance in order to clear a 200-foot high mark.

So, no...Xcelerator was not a "test prototype" for Top Thrill Dragster at Cedar Point like many believe. Cedar Fair management immediately recognized the potential in the technology developed for Xcelerator that lead to Dragster's inception.

Anyway, point being...Xcelerator is Knott's hyper coaster -- as the result of the park pursuing that kind type ride, but having to work around obstacles and space issues.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:56 AM
Jeff's avatar

It was also a trial run for a much bigger ride.


Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:53 AM
rollergator's avatar

^The rest is all very believable....but there's NO doubt CF was also thinking "if this works, we could use the technology to build something even bigger." Otherwise, Dragster would have been at least another year on the drawing board.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 2:45 PM

Theres no such thing as out of room. Check out Indiana Beach :)

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:49 PM

^ Or on a larger scale look at Blackpool Pleasure Beach in the UK. They are limited on space but have a lot of coasters includingthe hyper Pepsi Max Big One.


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:21 PM
Mamoosh's avatar

All Cedar Fair has to do is dump Ghost Town and you have a huge area to expand!

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:36 PM
Soggy's avatar

I'd love to see a "real" hyper at KBF, but I'm not holding my breath. Within it's existing boundaries, Knotts COULD come up with a true hyper by designing something with a crazy combo of lifthill, layout, crossovers of existing structures and less-than-aesthetically pleasing supports. (think Thunder Dolphin) But I think cost vs. payoff wouldn't be worth it.

Other options are crossing over Western Ave. into the dirt lot I mentioned before, or somehow tunnelling under Beach Bl. into their existing large parking lot. However, both of those options put the coaster quite near residential properties, which also poses problems.

If anything ''big" and "hyper-ish" happens at Knotts, it would have to be smaller than 200', but could still be a fantastic airtime coaster at around 150'. Something like Steel Eel, or Goliath @ Walibi World comes to mind. Using the rooftop area of Kingdom of the Dinosaurs for station & queue would be ideal.

Last edited by Soggy, Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:40 PM

Pass da' sizzrup, bro!

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