Knoebels Flying Turns faces more issues, Black Diamond delayed

By the time Flying Turns is up and running, we'll all proably be too old and decrepit to ride it (unless the retirement home takes us to the park and one of our "assistants" rides with us.)

I've given up holding my breath for this ride.

Kudos for KG to continue to persevere on this ambitious project. Good thing there are parks that are willing to try something different, unique; I have a feeling it will be worth the wait. After opening up my coaster season with a trip to Carowinds and Kings Dominion, I look forward to getting back to more unique places like KG (Kennywood, Holiday World etc. etc. etc...)

I just wonder if there is more-so a design flaw in the design of the layout, more then that of the train. It seems like no matter who they get on board for the project (engineering), they can not develop a train to work correctly after all these years.

I really hope one day this ride does run, though.

The layout is a proven design from what I've heard, being taken from one of the Bartlett/PTC rides of the 1930's. I would hazard that the new ASTM standards on rolling stock have come into play here and that is what is causing the problems.

But a proven design in the 1930's is not exactly a proven design today. I would think they would of took in account the additional weight of the rolling stock that would be required today prior to designing the layout. Either way, it comes down to poor engineering somewhere. No matter how you look at it, sadly. Not all the variables were covered, and now they have a complex problem with this ride.

It is too bad though... Would have been an amazing ride. I just have little hope for it, personally. It seems like the problem is speed through the layout, thus I think the resolution will be a modified layout eventually. The train modifications thus far simply are not fixing the issues.

I tend to agree with Steve. I think track (or trough, in this case) has to be designed with the rolling stock in mind, not the other way around. For example, with a traditional train, you know that there are limitations to how it can steer, pivot, turn, etc., and you build the track so that it can deal with those limitations. I think it's reasonable to assume that similar, if not more complex, design constraints exist when building a trough.

I've been thinking along the same lines. Perhaps they should have created a small test trough first, designed the ride vehicles, and then built the entire structure it would ride on.

Woulda coulda shoulda...

Although I think it's very, um, Knoebel of them for being as patient and persistent as they have.

Every credit for keeping at it... You do have to wonder how long they can keep doing so.

LostKause said:
I've been thinking along the same lines. Perhaps they should have created a small test trough first, designed the ride vehicles, and then built the entire structure it would ride on.

Woulda coulda shoulda...

But even then, you have no guarantee that you can replicate the same conditions going from a small trough to the actual sized one.

I'm more fired up, excuse the pun, about the change in policy to limit smoking to certain areas of the park.

It's not that you need a certain cross section of trough repeated thousands of times. It's the radius of the turns, relative to the expected banking, etc., in the context of the abilities of the vehicle.

I'm happy about the new smoking policy, RGB. I hate having to dodge smokers.

yah, if customers adhere to the regulations and lawenforcement or staff enforce it. At cedarpoint we were eating outside of panda express and someone was smoking about 30 or so feet from the designated smokeing area. I brought this to the attention of an officer and he stated she was close enough...

I'm curious what the hold-up is with Black Diamond. It was on track to possibly soft open by PPP last year, then it was expected to be ready in time for opening day this year. The coaster itself has been finished since the end of last season. I guess the detailed theming is taking longer than expected? Hopefully the recent flood didn't affect the ride other than slowing progress down during the cleanup effort.

Are you sure, Matt? I thought they had just decided on or had approved the theming around the time of PPP. I remember Dick making some kind of comment about the proposals being nice, but that Knoebels wasn't Disney. For people who haven't been defriended by Kozmo, Knoebels has been putting up a lot of pictures on Facebook showing the work progressing.

Thanks RGB for opening that wound. I almost forgot Kozmo doesn't like me anymore.

Rick_UK said:
Every credit for keeping at it... You do have to wonder how long they can keep doing so.

Two things to consider: First, Knoebels has no shareholders. Second, they also own a lumber yard, conveniently located RIGHT next to the park. I think they can keep at it for quite a long time if need be....

I'm sure the wood isn't free.

No. But, seeing as how it's their lumberyard, I'm sure they get a pretty good deal. :)