Just because it spins doesn't mean it HAS to be a mouse...

---

Nearly everyone makes Wild Mice. Mack makes the best mouse, IMO.

---

Try a Miler mouse sometime, the fantastic airtime and laterals, as well as the wild helix finale, put Macks to shame.

"The Gerstlauer spinning coasters are very similar to their "bobsled" coasters."

Nate-

You're exactly right. In fact, the Spinning and Bobsleds are sold in the same layouts. The only difference is that the Spinning Coaster needs a little more track to re-align the car.

Adam

Random Question but has anyone tried any of the Japanese Mice? either the Okamoto, Hoei Sangyo or Meisho Models? always wondered what they were like.

Vilda Musen is one of those hard to class coasters with the hair pin turns that are very mouse like but with a traditional coaster ending. maybe we need a whole new name :)

just to fuel it. is this a mouse? http://www.hoei-sangyo.co.jp/img/newidea/meca.jpg (if they build it that is) it has mouse elements but some of the elemends aint miceish atall. *** Edited 2/24/2004 9:05:53 PM UTC by roomraider***

If they were to sell one (which they never, never will) it also fits in the "wild mouse/family coaster hybrid" category. Or, in this case, "wild mouse/looping coaster hybrid" (which is exactly why it won't ever sell).

-Nate

^Why shouldn´t they sell this? I think it looks quite amazing. I see a vertical drop and a non-inverting Immelman-turn (no inversions at all).

If you navigate Hoei-sangyos website (hoei-sangyo.co.jp) you will see that they have sold numereous rides and coasters in Asia.

Anyway, roomraiders example classifies more as a mouse than the Gerstlauer or Maurer spinners, IMO.

__________
"Our Robots are designed to provide you with an unforgettable vacation!"

Because it's a mix between a thrill ride and a family ride. If a park wants a thrill ride, they're going to buy a thrill ride. If a park wants a family ride, they're going to buy a family ride. This ride tries to be both, but it doesn't work like that; it will only effectively alienate both its target audiences. It will be too intense for families to ride, yet (aside from two brief moments) too sedate for hardcore thrillseekers. Basically, it doesn't have any niche.

For similar reasons, Vekoma had a crappy product line with their GIBs and would likely never sell another, even if they weren't so problematic.

-Nate

So are you saying TT is a family ride?

Yes, I think it's clearly a family ride. It may have some more thrilling elements to it than, say, Ripsaw but it's target demographic is obviously families.

-Nate

Check out this Video. I would say that this is more of a Thrill Coaster rather than a Family Coaster.

Even on the Rides page of their website, they have Timberland Twister listed as a Thrill Ride.

http://campsnoopy.com/attractions/TimberlandPOVMed.wmv

They also have the simulator and the Ripsaw roller coaster listed as "thrill rides." And if you've ridden Ripsaw, you'd know it's about as family-oriented as they come.

From the Worlds of Fun website: "The new [Spinning Dragons] will entertain both thrill seekers and young families as the cars spin in complete circles with two pairs of passengers facing one another."

Sure, there are some elements that will probably be pleasing to thrill seekers. But bottom line is, if the entire family can ride (as the WoF site indicates) it's a family ride.

-Nate

In addition, Gerstlauer is marketing the ride as a family ride to potential customers.

Adam

LOL, that Gerstlauer bobsled is almost enough to make me live somewhere that it snows....talk about a wild sleigh ride! :)

So by that definition, wouldn't most any Schwarzkopf looper be a family ride? Most of them have 42" height restrictions. Buttloads of Gs, sure--but the whole family can ride, right?

-'Playa

Even "Vild Svinet" at BonBonLand (97° drop) is marketed (and accepted) as a family ride!

________
"Our Robots are programmed to provide you with an unforgettable vacation!"

Random question about spinning mice:
How do the cars get back into proper orientation at the end of the ride?

[rant]I should know the answer to that question, Andy, but the only spinning mouse I've ridden (Exterminator) wasn't spinning the day I rode.[/rant]

---

coasterdude318 said:
Because it's a mix between a thrill ride and a family ride. If a park wants a thrill ride, they're going to buy a thrill ride. If a park wants a family ride, they're going to buy a family ride. This ride tries to be both, but it doesn't work like that; it will only effectively alienate both its target audiences. It will be too intense for families to ride, yet (aside from two brief moments) too sedate for hardcore thrillseekers. Basically, it doesn't have any niche.

---

Hmmm. I didn't realize rides had to conform to only one specific demographic, else no park will purchase one. Seems to me the opposite would be true: that a ride consisting of both family- and thrill-type elements would be something parks might want.

---

For similar reasons, Vekoma had a crappy product line with their GIBs and would likely never sell another, even if they weren't so problematic.

-Nate

---

Explain to me how a GIB is both a family and a thrill ride. I thought regular boomerangs were considered thrill rides. I also thought GIBs were quite popular. Although it's impossible to prove (unless another one is sold), I'd predict that if the GIBs were not so problematic, they would be selling quite well.
*** Edited 2/26/2004 4:56:21 PM UTC by Vater***

If a ride attempts to fill too many demographics (or attempts to fill two completely opposite demographics) it only ends up excluding one or both demographics completely. As I explained, that ride easily excludes most families (a vertical drop is hardly family material) yet it also excludes most thrill seekers because after the vertical drop and near-inversion, it's a typical wild mouse (which most thrill seekers don't ride). So no, rides don't have to conform to one specific demographic, but it is safer to play it that way. Because in the case of the Hoei Sangyo, it ends up without a target audience.

The GIB's are a different situation. Its inevitable failure isn't because of demographics, but for business reasons. Basically, the ride is too expensive for smaller parks to afford, yet too low capacity for most large parks to want to install. Again, it's a ride without a niche.

---

CoastaPlaya said:
So by that definition, wouldn't most any Schwarzkopf looper be a family ride? Most of them have 42" height restrictions. Buttloads of Gs, sure--but the whole family can ride, right?

---

What definition? "A ride the whole family can enjoy" has less to do with height restrictions and more to do with the nature of the ride itself. That is, is this something that younger children and adults alike will want to ride and will enjoy? Or is this something that will scare the piss out of them? If a coaster is intense, chances are most kids are going to be frightened by it and few will find it fun. That's not a family ride.

Schwarzkopf loopers probably aren't the best family rides simply because they're intense and because they invert (which I'll address when I discuss Vild Svinet). I don't think they're poor examples of starter loopers (like Arrow corkscrews, for instance) but I don't think those are examples of "family rides." They're basically stuck between family rides and thrill rides. They're good for kids who are stepping up toward thrill rides, but I hardly think it's an attaction that appeals to everyone in the family. Certainly you don't expect everyone who rides something like an Arrow mine train, Ripsaw, Jaguar, or Whizzer to ride Laser or Zonga. Certainly more kids would enjoy a Schwarzkopf looper than, say, Kumba or Batman: The Ride but a Schwarzkopf is no Ripsaw! See a difference?

As for Vild Svinet, I have a really hard time believing that it's being marketed as a family coaster for several reasons. It's a pretty well-known concept that once you include loops in your coaster you exclude a certain percentage of people, not to mention a beyond-vertical first drop! If people are being excluded due to the thrilling/intense nature of the ride, then is that really appealing to the entire family? No, it's probably not. Compare the demographics of Vild Svinet riders to that of Ripsaw or Jaguar. I'm sure there's a big difference there. In fact, the park's website seems to clearly indicate that Vild Svinet is, in fact, their thrill ride. The Vild Svinet page talks up the ride's thrilling moments (first drop, loop) and doesn't really mention the rest. The word "thrills" is even emphasized in all caps on the page. There isn't a single picture on the page that doesn't include the loop. And finally, the height requirement is just over 48" (125 cm). How, exactly, is that being marketed as a family ride?

-Nate

So in short, you're a staunch believer of Dr. Seuss' teaching:

"If gooses dream of moose juice and mooses dream of goose juice they both wake up screaming screams!"

I guess those denim-vest wearing thrill-seekers who borrow kids to board Vekoma RollerSkaters are screwed up beyond all possible belief, no?

-'Playa *** Edited 2/26/2004 7:20:01 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

---

CoastaPlaya said:

I guess those denim-vest wearing thrill-seekers who borrow kids to board Vekoma RollerSkaters are screwed up beyond all possible belief, no?

---

Yes, I've always thought that. :)

-Nate

Or maybe, just *maybe*, because a ride appeals (to some extent) to both thrill seekers and families, *everyone* can ride it together and have a good time. Unlike most enthusiasts, most families go to a park and just wander around until they find something they all want to do together.

Stupid Gator's contagious asterisks.