Judge rejects sale of Conneaut Lake Park property

The Arnolds thing would be a case of the community stepping up and saying, "We want this park to remain in our community, it means something to us."

That has never really happened for CLP...and it doesn't seem like it's going to.

Not saying it's going to happen, just saying it has happened before.

Watch, either Sutterlin or a friend of his will step up with a contribution as this season opener for CLP Survivor has yet to be written.

From my many trips there, either staying at a local hotel, usually the Parkside or staying Camperland, the locals I've talked to are from opposing camps. The business owners want it open and the average working person either doesn't care or wants it closed.

I'd like it to stay open, but i also don't have 300k either.

Some more follow up articles:

Residents mixed reactions

Sutterlin not giving up

This is playing out like a friggin soap opera! :)

Well I think it will be a tragedy to lose this place. I KNOW the problems and the challenges and I know it is an uphill battle to keep a place like this even close to profitable. But it is still very sad. There are so few places like this, and after it is gone there will be fewer still. It makes me extremely upset. It seems some people are almost full of glee at the prospect of it closing. Or perhaps they are just "realistic". In any event, it is tragic to anyone who appreciates the traditional amusement park.

I am glad I went twice last year and got to ride their newly restored Tumble Bug. They had nearly all the rides running too both times. It seemed the place was humming along better than ever and was really showing promise again....

It is very disturbing how there is so much outright animosity towards this park, as if it ran over your puppy with its car or something. Business discussion aside for a minute, the loss of a park like this is terrible.

Honestly, what kind of world do you want to live in? One where highways are littered with nothing but strip malls separating big box stores and the roads in between jammed with stark housing developments and condominium complexes? Doesn't anyone long for a unique landscape with independently-owned restaurants with funky neon signs, stores where you can actually find something you can't find on the internet and the occasional miniature golf course, arcade or amusement park for a little mindless diversion?

Face it, people- there aren't many parks like Conneaut left, just like there aren't many bowling alleys, drive-ins, roller rinks and roadside go-kart tracks left. And chances are once the ones we have are gone, they're not going to come back, at least not as we care to remember them. Not to sound like a weepy-eyed nostalgic that's out of touch with reality, but I'm really worried about the homogenization of this country. I shop at Target and Best Buy and I'm thankful they're there, but what's wrong with places like Conneaut being there too? What's wrong with having a little fun, and having it take place in a completely original venue with charm and character? Some of you call yourselves enthusiasts yet want to see an amusement park disappear just because the constant news topics bother you?

Get real.

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Doesn't anyone long for a unique landscape with independently-owned restaurants with funky neon signs, stores where you can actually find something you can't find on the internet...

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Sure, it's called Coventry here in Cleveland. Short North in Columbus. And by the way, Conneaut is not any of those things.

By the way, who here says they want to see it close? I see a lot of comments about how it's obviously going to because it's a hopeless situation, but I don't see people saying, "Oh, thank God that place will close!"

Keeping up with the drama!

http://www.meadvilletribune.com/local/local_story_114231637.html

Maybe they should use Connie Otter on a Radio commercial: We need 300k or I'm gonna be called Home... (why does that sound familiar???? ;)

^^ Who wants to see it close? Read the very first post.

And how would you know what Conneaut is and isn't? You've never been there. If you had been there, you would know many of the buildings have outstanding architecture and the park has a unique traditional feel.

Even more info!http://www.meadvilletribune.com/local/local_story_114231837.html

and

http://www.meadvilletribune.com/local/local_story_114231749.html
*** This post was edited by FLYINGSCOOTER 4/25/2007 2:13:04 PM ***

From this story:

"She estimates the park brings in 150,000 people a season..."

Let me try to put this into perspective.

CLP was open 84 days last year. That works out to 1786 people a day on average.

RCDB lists Alpengeist's capacity at 1820 per hour.

That means if you go to BGE and Alpie is running at capacity, if the line is a hour long then there's more people in the queue at that very moment than the number of people that visit CLP in an entire average day.

That's why this park is in trouble.

^good math!

That and the park lost about 2k a day from the restaurant alone.

Let's see local comparison to Waldameer, which is basically the same size give or take. Waldmeer claims to reach about 400,000 per season. They are going to be open 88 days this upsoming season. Attendance should be at that range especially with a new X-Scream opening. So here is the comparison:

400,000 people / 88 days open = about 4545 people per day

Using Gonch's numbers we have 4545 - 1820 = 2725 difference per day on average.

Waldameer obviously doubles what CLP gets on a day on average. These parks have similar ride lineups and other attractions. You can even give CLP a leg up for having a major classic woodie. The way the future of their overpowering competion looks, this figure may only get worse.

The odd thing is that CLP use to dominate Waldameer. According to my parents, going to CLP was way more fun than run down Waldameer at the time. Even the history of CLP shows that it was once one of the best attractions in NW Pa.

And Magic Mountain had an average attendance of around 9900-- and they still can't run a single freakin ride with less than a 2 hour wait. It's part of a chain that has many more times the debt and I'm sure has many more times the expenses in maintenance. So following that illogic, that park should close too.

Let's just build a bunch of coffins for all companies that fall on hard times.

GM fell behiund Toyota in worldwide sales? Get the shovel ready.

IBM posted a quarterly loss? Toos 'em in the ground.

McDonalds is losing customers to Burger King? BURY THEM!!!!

So corporate welfare is OK? Not with my tax dollars.

CLP has never dominated Waldameer.

Waldameer attracts every local school districts as well as (I'm guessing) 80% of the company picnics every summer. And that is with being closed every Monday. (excecpt when a major holiday or holiday weekend falls on Monday)

The plain figures of population within a 20 mile radius of each park as well as the attendance for the surrounding school districts gives you the attendance figures.

CLP is unfortunately in a area that is having financial difficulties. Meadville area is considered the "Tool City" of America. And anyone who has dealings with tooling, machining, or tool & die knows that America has lost jobs to China in the tooling industry. Combine that with the price of material (carbide, steel, aluminum), you can see why the community around CLP is struggling.

Who said anything about your tax dollars? First of all, it wouldn't be with your tax dollars, since you don't live near Conenaut. Second, the park is asking for donations from people willing to contribute. I don't see how their current plans affect anyone that doesn't want to be affected. The park wanted to sell their land to pay down a debt. Now they're asking for people interested in the park to donate. Neither inconveniences anyone that doesn't want to be inconvenienced.

"Sure, it's called Coventry here in Cleveland. Short North in Columbus. And by the way, Conneaut is not any of those things."

No, Conneaut is not the Short North, but monied trendy areas are not the only nonhomogenized places of interest. By your methods, each city gets one square mile of upscale art galleries, the rest goes to Wal-Mart and McDonalds.

And if you really want to go deep, it wasn't that many years ago that the Short North was "meth lab central." In fact, the name was the police nickname for the area since they had to respond to so many calls. I guess you would have poo-pooed efforts to turn the area around.

I could make a list about 10,000 pages long of unique things that make the world interesting and I still wouldn't have scratched the surface. Conneaut is most definately among them.

And Rob:

"GM fell behiund Toyota in worldwide sales? Get the shovel ready. IBM posted a quarterly loss? Toos 'em in the ground. McDonalds is losing customers to Burger King? BURY THEM!!!!"

In those cases, I'll be first in line with a shovel!

*** This post was edited by millrace 4/26/2007 1:47:11 PM ***

I have to question why one of the judge's reasons for disapproving the sale was that there weren't enough requirements for the condos specified for the condos proposed to be built. Since when is that a requirement of a real estate transaction?

It's the municipality's obligation to prepare and approve its own zoning ordinance. The zoning can restrict or control what is built within each district by defining land use (condos acceptable), lot size or density (10 units per acre) based on available sewer and water, lot coverage (how much of the lot can be occupied by a building or paved surface), setback lines, and parking requirements. It's where the municipality specifies standards for lighting, noise and air quality that potential users must comply with. It's not the place to discuss architectural treatments or individual floor plans. If the ordinance as amended didn't include these things, or if the wording is contradictory or vague, it's up to their solicitor to point that out so they don't get into legal challenges in the future.

I never heard of someone being told they can't sell a piece of property because the buyer hasn't provided enough detail for what he intends to do on the site. That's the buyer's responsibility-- it's up to him to submit plans to the municipality that show his proposed use complies with their zoning and land development ordinances. If not, he either has to change his plans, or he can't use the property. In neither case is the seller responsible.