Is PTC making improvements to their lapbars?

Jim Fisher: I haven't ridden Le Monstere, but I don't believe Morgan trains use buzz bars. They're single-position, yes, and they certainly fit very tight, but I don't think they'd be classified as "buzz bars."

There are other single-position bars that aren't buzz bars (make sense?). The name "buzz bars" comes from the buzzing sound that's used to release the single-position bars. Calling PTC single-position bars "buzz bars", however, is incorrect, as I don't believe they all "buzz" (Cyclops, for instance).

Redman22: I wasn't suggesting parks should maintain their bars one way or another. When I used the word "fault", I was only trying to convey that it's the parks that set it that way, not PTC. I was *not* using the word "fault" to give the impression that loosening the springs (so that the bars are more likely to fall down) was a bad thing. I hope that's clear now.

-Nate
Edit: Jeremy is right; I forgot about AE's buzz bars that are *not* single-position (or dual position, as they may also be called).
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 3/2/2003 10:22:41 PM ***

I suppose the black bars that Sawblade5 is reffering to are the same ones that can be found on PKD's adult woodies,now those are lap bars I can live with but the orange ones on SFA's woodies are downright painful & should be replaced asap.

There are a lot of versions of PTC ratcheting lap bars out there. There are the electric ones used on the PKI wood coasters. There is the mechanical version developed for Mean Streak. There is the awful mechanical version that Cedar Point installed on Blue Streak in '96, and the good mechanical version that Cedar Point had installed on the Blue Streak in '00. There are the oddball variations like the ones on Hercules and Hurler that are mechanical but with yet another mechanism.

Then there are other oddball, presumably aftermarket modifications like the ones on SFGAm Viper and Georgia Cyclone. And the thankfully more unusual version found on the American Eagle.

If PTC is redesigning the lap bar locks again, there is no telling whether we'll notice or not... :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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The lapbar "clamshell" on B&M coasters (Raging Bull, etc) fall too...do those coasters need a redesign? No, it is a safety feature designed to hold the rider in place. Improper usage of restraint systems causes accidents...look at the case at KBF and perilous plunge. The restraints were not properly secured and the rider (who, admittedly was very obese) fell out of the ride vehicle..

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Yes they do need a redesign BUT it is NOT dangerious to have 2-3 inches of space above your legs so don't give me that BS. Anything over 3 inches may be risk but under 3 inches is NOT a safety hazard otherwise why the (bleep) would Dick Kinzel give himself any space on MF? Some people here think you have to have ZERO room to be safe. One click rides are nice but even two or three click may give the average person some space. HW would not allow one click rides if they think there was any chance of falling out. If HW lapbars fall completely down to your lap I won't blame the park I blame PTC for making junk!

"If HW lapbars fall completely down to your lap I won't blame the park I blame PTC for making junk!"

You don't get it, do you? It's up to the park to maintain/adjust those springs, etc. If your BMW's engine craps out because you didn't change your oil in 4 years does that mean that BMW made junk?

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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

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redman822 said:

The lapbar "clamshell" on B&M coasters (Raging Bull, etc) fall too...do those coasters need a redesign?

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I actually felt unsafe on Nitro because I'm relatively skinny and it lacks a seatbelt which I'm used to at SFNE. Still put my hands up though...:)

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SFNE Central v4- Online Six Flags New England Resource
CBuzzer since September 2001 with a few bumps along the way. :)
*** This post was edited by SFNE Freak 3/2/2003 3:40:16 PM ***

If you don't feel secure on Nitro, wrap your legs around the vertical pipe. Of course, you shouldn't have to do that.

First off, the so-called PTC "buzz-bars" found on rides like HERSHEYPARK's Comet are NOT "single position" lapbars. More correctly, they are "Duel" position lapbars...OPEN or CLOSED (aka UP or DOWN). Single position lapbars would be 'stationary' like those found on Kennwood's Jackrabbit.

As stated before, the "buzz-bar" term comes from the buzzing sound heard when the bars are released. It is important to note, however, that many coasters that have individual ratcheting "orange" bars still have retained the "buzzing" release system, such as on SFGAm's American Eagle.

And for those that think that PTC makes "junk" for the return springs, come out to the DC area. Ride SFA's Roar and see how the bars tend to "self-staple" during the ride. The drive an hour and a half south to PKD and I *dare* you to get the bars on Hurler anywhere NEAR your lap. It *all* depends on the tension that the parks desire. Though I would personally like to see all parks be more PKD-like, I can understand why parks would go the other way.

And BWSFA, the "orange" and "black" (and in the case of Raven "red") bars on the PTC trains are all alike. It is only the spring tensioning that makes a difference.

But all I want is strong springs on Lightning Racer ;)
lata, jeremy
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"I will break away, I'll find myself today"

The mechanisms differ from ride to ride, too, Jeremy! Worst in class: Go to Darien Lake and ride Predator, where the lap bars have NO return springs. I mean, they're not even there! Those have an electric mechanism. It isn't just spring tension. Some of the Six Flags coasters have little preloaded mini-shock absorbers on the lap bars that tend to hold them in place, for instance. But no, you can't tell the mechanism from the padding color. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

There were *so* many things wrong with SFDL's Predator that the lapbars were the least of my worries :)

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"I will break away, I'll find myself today"

PTC STOPPED making the stronger springs from what I was told because ALL of the better ratcheting lapbars with the stronger return springs are older ones that is why I think PTC now makes crap lapbars instead of good ones like on Viper. The Hurler trains were that last of the good quality ones. Roar is post 1998 crap like on Shivering Timbers and Rampage!

PFF, not *exactly*. Knoebels' specifically requested (and got) the strong return springs on Twister, and I'd be willing to bet that any park that *asks* would also get those....DBH sure is awesome on that return leg with staple-free AIRTIME...:)

I wonder how you can praise Viper's lapbars, and then claim Hurler's were the "last of the good ones", since Hurler opened *before* Viper.

Unless, of course, one of the Hurlers got a new train somewhere along the way...

-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 3/3/2003 5:53:02 PM ***

Viper's restraints do have problems, one time I was riding (whatever year the bull opened) and on the thrid turnaround after the drop my restraint completly unlocked and went fully up, luckly this didnt happen when I was cresting a hill or else I probably would have been roadkill. However I must profess that thanks to the fact that I am tall and not exactly a small person my bar on PTC's can only go down one notch (I have plenty of room when this happens and everyonce in a while on hot days I can get it down another latch or two). Oh about a milisecond later when my reflexs kicked in I was able to relock my restraint.

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I don't care what anyone says, Magnum is better then Millenium Force.
*** This post was edited by Touchdown 3/3/2003 6:11:42 PM ***

Sorry about that I thought Viper was older than Hurler! Maybe Viper was the last of the good one and I am happy to hear about the GOOD NEWS about DBH! Has that rider dramatically improved since it first opened. Although I haven't heard much about people saying it "suck" intial reports made it sound like it was just OK! I hope the entire ride is as good as Viper for airtime than I will finally feel that FL got a GREAT woodie and a BIG smile on my face. My sister lives close to that woodie!!!! :-) TO the poster just before this one I would LOVE to have that problem you had on Viper because that equal MORE airtime! I don't think Viper's airtime as good as it is, is violent enough to throw you out completely. Seatbelts would be nice for a backup and unless things change since I rode it, Viper does lack seatbelts.
*** This post was edited by Pink Floyd Fanatic 3/3/2003 6:23:20 PM ***

You know, if I ever had a lap bar pop completely open on me, I think I'd leave it open until the end of the ride. Makes the story that much more believeable.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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RideMan said:
You know, if I ever had a lap bar pop completely open on me, I think I'd leave it open until the end of the ride. Makes the story that much more believeable.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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I hope you are joking or have never rode Viper. That ride has tons of airtime in it. Just in case you didnt know, airtime happens when for a couple of seconds your body continues to travel in a straight line (up) and the coaster train is curving into a new direction (down). Airtime ends in two cases: one your movement is slowed by normal air friction and you just land back in your seat, or two the lap bar prevents you from going any further in a straight line and curves your route until air friction helps you land again. Viper has a lot of the latter variety. Oh and before anyone calls me a whimp, I was back on the Snake in 2 hours and have rode it countless times since and it is on my top ten woodies.

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I don't care what anyone says, Magnum is better then Millenium Force.

Wait... let me get this straight... you just explained the concept of airtime to Dave Althoff. Rideman could explain to you how every part on a PTC train works, down to the minute details.

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Jonathan Hawkins
Starcoasters.com
"There is a cluster of bees at the top of the lift. Sorry for the inconvenience."
*** This post was edited by StarCoasters 3/3/2003 7:37:22 PM ***

You must be new around here. RideMan is well aware what airtime is...

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."

Wait wait wait. Are we talking about the same Viper here? The one at SFGam? Ha! Where's the airtime? I didn't remember any. Then again, I'm also spoiled every summer by Phoenix... ;) It's nice having a real airtime machine only 45 minutes away...

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Track Record: 164
Favorite Wood: Phoenix at Knoebels
Favorite Steel: Millennium Force at Cedar Point